Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Guardian: UK Govt. knew of danger of organophosphates, ignored it (Mar quoted).

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Esther12, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,449
    Likes:
    28,522
    New story, maybe important, especially if it does lead on to a real enquiry. Big up to Lady Mar:

    http://www.theguardian.com/environm...knew-of-farm-poisoning-risk-but-failed-to-act

    Somewhat related to CFS controversies, psycholoigisation of symptoms, etc.

    Mar discussing a 1998 report on this: http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/shepdip.html
    BBC coverage of that report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/211513.stm

    I now can't find a copy of the report itself, but remember reading it years ago and thinking it was a bit irritating.

    This is part of a 1998 parliamentary report on CFS:

    http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/RP98-107.pdf
     
  2. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,806
    Cornwall, UK
    Ah yes - John Gummer - the man who publicly fed a beefburger to his young daughter to convince the public that British beef was safe...which it wasn't.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/369625.stm

    In 1995/6 I was looking into the possibility that the illness I was developing might be due to the organophosphates in a cat flea treatment I had been using. I was sent from pillar to post from one government department/agency to another, ending up back where I started.

    The Pesticides Safety Directorate claimed in a letter that no pet flea treatments contained organophosphates. I had to refer them to a list of such products published by another government department/agency.

    They didn't know?!!! o_O
     
  3. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

    Messages:
    975
    Likes:
    1,308
    South East England, UK
    I also wondered about the connection between my health issues which first started in 1979 and the organophosphate spray I used to use on my golden retrievers. Now I know I have a genetic problem with detoxification, I am positive that using that spray contributed to weakening me further.

    Pam
     
    MeSci likes this.
  4. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

    Messages:
    2,091
    Likes:
    10,358
    Earth
    I first got sick after over-exposure to Malathion lotion, which caused muscle weakness, PEM, sensitivities and the like and deteriorated into ME after about three months.

    Is the official line on chronic OP poisoning still 'nothing to see here' or have we moved on to a more constructive situation? Does this affect treatment options at all (no, I'm not holding my breath)?

    I thought things might have changed if they're admitting that harm is caused and I know some stuff (including Malathion) was banned by the EU a while back. I remember it because The Sun was greatly exercised that if pesticides were banned it might mean daisies would grow at Wembley and thereby ruin the Cup Final (no, really).
     
    Abha and MeSci like this.
  5. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes:
    3,562
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Bingo, just like I've said before!
    UK government = sick evil degenerate traitorous cowardly useless murdering GOBSHYTE SCUM!
     
  6. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,938
    Likes:
    1,467
    UK
    I was poisoned by a carbamate pesticide, sprayed throughout my home by the local authority due to cat fleas left by a previous tenant, and the family were not moved out for the spraying. The result was catastrophic for me having ME already. I was vomiting and passing out.

    I took the council to court but the case was lumped together with the sheep dip farmers and we all had our legal aid withdrawn at one point. My solicitor was suspected by many of coercing with the government by causing delays until the ruling was issued.

    So that was it. No one brought to justice.
     
    MeSci, natasa778 and SilverbladeTE like this.
  7. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes:
    3,562
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Murdoch is one of the worst SOB the world has ever seen, his corporate empire spews lies and hatred like a blight
     
  8. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes:
    3,562
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    As said I got M.E. after a very nasty flu like bug, and a "damp proof" coating the local council put down in my bedroom
    damn stuff made me and the workmen sick as hell for months, no idea what was in the shit, OP or who knows what, but folk are coming downing with ME and similar illnesses after exposure to this class of poison
    it may well be a case of "the straw that broke the camels back", or causative agent for some, who knows until work is really done on accepting and identifying these illnesses in truly huge studies that *need* done
    ( I tend to think viral cause that sets up issues that other things can trigger later, and the trigger, circumstances and genetics cause what the final effect is, be it ME, Fibro, MS etc)

    finding precision in cohorts of 20 to 100 folk is not much use really when what's really needed is studies of similar illnesses in depth on thousands of folk at the same time
    prevalence of ME, Fibro, MS and others requires such, simple reductionism is infantile for such scope
     
    MeSci likes this.
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,359
    Likes:
    14,700
    I also had a severe exposure to malathion, because a half bottle of this stuff was spilt on the floor in the house where I live, and was not properly cleared up, as the idiot who spilt it had no idea that pesticides are potent toxins.

    Malathion is particularly dangerous if spilt in an indoor environment, because its breakdown metabolite malaoxon is 33 times more toxic that malathion. When malathion is spilt indoors, this highly potent toxin malaoxon cannot disperse, and so poisons people living or working in that indoor environment.

    I believe the safety testing on this pesticide was focused on malathion; but if they had considered its much more toxic breakdown metabolite malaoxon as well, this pesticide would have never been certified for sale to the general public.



    Very soon after my malathion exposure, I caught this nasty enterovirus which triggered my ME/CFS. But the question is, would have I developed ME/CFS from this virus if I had not had that severe malathion exposure?

    Chronic exposure to significant amounts of organophosphate pesticides such as malathion have been linked to triggering ME/CFS. In one study, farmers using organophosphate-based "sheep dip" in Scotland were found to have rates of ME/CFS four times higher than the national average.

    Pyrethroid pesticides have also been linked to ME/CFS.

    Organochlorine pesticides such as DDT and dieldrin have also been linked to ME/CFS, but most organochlorines have been banned for several decades now.



    If you happen to have the TT allele in your rs662 SNP of your PON1 gene (which you can look up on 23andme here), then you will be more susceptible to poisoning from organophosphate pesticides such as malathion.

    PON1 is the gene involved in organophosphate detoxification, and this TT allele makes you less able to detoxify organophosphates from your body. Unfortunately I have the TT allele. More info in this thread.



    EDIT: actually it seems that for some organophosphate compounds, the TT allele may make PON1 slower at detoxification; and for other organophosphates, the TT allele may make PON1 faster at detoxification. See this post.

    So I don't think we can say that the TT allele on rs662 SNP uniformly slows the detoxification of organophosphates by PON1. If I understood correctly, I think you would need to look at this on a case-by-case basis, and see whether for the organophosphate in question, how the TT allele affects the detoxification rate of PON1.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  10. South

    South Senior Member

    Messages:
    466
    Likes:
    448
    Southeastern United States
    @Silverblade In your country, can the local council force people to have chemical coatings put inside their houses? Just wondered if that is what some countries are doing, for some reason. So I can start finding a cave somewhere to live, in case all countries eventually do this :ill:
     
    picante likes this.
  11. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

    Messages:
    2,091
    Likes:
    10,358
    Earth
    I covered myself in it head to toe four weeks in a row, apparently to get rid of scabies. I didn't even have scabies in the end, I was itching because of an allergy. I shouldn't have done the fourth week, indeed it was specifically warned against in the leaflet, but I didn't know it was especially dangerous and I wasn't getting any better. So that was clever. Symptoms started within a day or two. I thought it would probably go away and didn't really tell my doctor about it until stuff got bad. Here I still am sixteen years later.

    It does get in the air if you leave it lying around - I kept the bottle in my room for ages afterwards and it always stank of it. I wasn't really told how dangerous it was until I started finding out about ME over a year later and I started to put all the circumstances together - it's basically nit shampoo and so you don't think so much of it if they use it on kids. Anyway, that probably didn't help much as well.

    What seemed to kick it into ME in the end was a virus, which went away after a couple of weeks and then came back with a vengence, so a bit like @SilverbladeTE but the other way round - I think it's likely that those two things coming after you at once will have the same bad impact whichever way it comes.
     
  12. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes:
    2,650
    NSW Australia
    I was exposed to Dieldrin, DDT, Roundup (glycophosphate), whatever was in pour on cattle dip and some unknowns in my years as a farmer's daughter. There were lots of unlabelled chemicals left behind by the previous property owners and a high level of ignorance in using them and no protective gear used at all.

    I didn't get ME/CFS until after Glandular fever 18 months after leaving the farm. A few doctors have thought the chemical exposure probably added to my susceptibility, most have dismissed it completely given that I wasn't sick when I was exposed.

    I am CT for the PON1 snp.
     
  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,359
    Likes:
    14,700
    I think these topical solutions (like Ovide) for treating lice and scabies are 0.1% malathion, so they are not as strong as a bottle of 100% malathion that you might find in a gardener's shed


    From the poisoning point of view, a major issue is an individual's PON1 gene activity in the blood, which can vary as much as 40-fold between one person and the next. If you have low PON1 activity, organophosphate pesticides are going to be as much as 40 times more toxic for you compared to a person with high PON1 activity.



    PON1 activity is highest in those with the CC allele of rs662 (best detoxifiers),
    PON1 activity is average in those with the CT allele of rs662 (average detoxifiers),
    PON1 activity is lowest in those with the TT allele of rs662 (worst detoxifiers).
    Ref: here.


    Interestingly, these alleles don't fully determine PON1 activity: even in people with the same PON1 allele, there can be significant variation in PON1 activity.

    Note that the rs662 SNP in the PON1 gene is also referred to as PON1 Q192R.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
    Valentijn likes this.
  14. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes:
    2,650
    NSW Australia
    Yes I noticed when I looked it up at OMIM that there are other PON1 snps as well that affect ability to detoxify the organophosphates but 23andme doesn't test for those
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  15. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes:
    3,562
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    No :)
    Lot of background info:
    what happened is that we ordinary peons :p here mostly live in local council owned properties, thus they are very low cost, otherwise most folk in poorer areas of UK would be homeless and I'd be leading an armed rebellion, WTF not when yer screwed eh?
    But, since we had humane and sensible leaders once upon a time, they realised the hellish systems of the past had to go, so after much of the housing stock was bombed out in WW2 or was horrible (some housing here dated back to 17th even 15th centuries), there was a mass program of building homes for the Working Class across the UK.

    But...lot of the designs/builds were crap, the original ideas they were only for 20 or 30 years to they built BETTER ones but that never happened, as bureaucratic idiocy and all kinds of crap in our weakening government in later 60s and 70s stopped new builds that were needed
    along comes the Wicked Bitch of the South East, Maggie "I Protect Kiddie Fiddlers" Thatcher, and she started a scheme to let council tenants buy the houses they had ben renting from the council, sometimes for many decades
    her desire was to turn everyone into a property owning Tory, and to hell with the consequences

    Note that was cause of lot of the huge social problems now overwhelming the UK, it started the bullshit of making homes "financial investments" instead of *HOMES*
    2/3rds of the council homes that were bought ended up in the hands of private rental companies who have massively increased rent prices, as the average price of a house in Southern England soared to £250,000, vastly above any sane real term cost
    it had huge knock on effects, driving many ordinary folk form their homes in London for example
    It is all due to collapse, it's an enormous "Bubble", when it pops, BOOM! about a trillion dollars is going to be wiped off the board...and then the properties will be bought up for buttons by the Elite, as always happens in "bubble bursts"...though that will probably be trigger, OR, result of the oncoming second economic crash which will be a doozy
    Serious, I can show you evidence for all this.


    Now back to my issues....

    Ok, we moved into this house about 30 years ago, as said these houses weren't well built as they were meant to be replaced. The high rise flats that were built across the UK, most had a dreadful flaw, one so stupid it beggars belief: the designs were for the SOUTH OF FRANCE. 4 in a block house I live in is really more for SE England.
    Scotland is very wet, cold and very windy

    Thus, damp (mould) was a very serious problem in the housing stock
    and then along comes Human Group Psychology 101... :/
    They blamed the TENANTS for the damp, because hey, they, whether it be local or national government, Left or Right, are all about keeping their arse in gravy and control
    I am not kidding you, they blamed the damp that was actually killing babies in the high rise flats on people having too much sex, making moisture. I kid thee not.

    To show how badly designed these houses were, the windows were made of single glazed glass with thin, flat BRASS frames. Brass is a metal, it transmits heat very well, so in a cold climate...yes the windows FROZE every winter. All part of why we have such a low life expectancy.

    My room had bad damp (mould), I proffered to leave windows open and paint over it. But my Mum God rest her over fussy cotton socks, wanted something done, so she got the council to do something.
    :rolleyes:
    Workmen came out and painted this black, tarry substance over the entire floor and other places
    the fumes were HELLISH, I was stoned from the fumes about 6 months, you could still smell it ten years later come up through the carpet!
    it's not funny it's not nice, I do not understand why anyone would want to do drugs that do that kind of thing
    some time later I met one of the work crew and he told me he and the other men had been in his words "violently ill" putting that stuff down


    Now my head was so messed up with all that I honeslty have no idea what was the order of events, but, a beloved uncle died, they put that damp proofing down on my bedroom floor, there was a very nasty flue like bug that persisted for 2 months going around and I got it (GP said a lot of the folk who had ME in his patients here got it at that outbreak),
    and then I know the final event was a ghastly period where I was hellishly sick for over two weeks, I was staggering around, falling, hardly able to think or operate. I was so sick, I couldn't even think to get medical help!
    I smelled something funny on my breathe, so I managed to ponder if it was from blood sugar as I have lot of diabetics in family
    did blood test, well for around that two weeks I'd been running blood sugar of 2.4 to 2.7, should be 7 to 12 on that scale
    I was so messed in the head by it I couldn't articulate that I needed help, absolutely ghastly, I've never done drugs in my life (apart from getting drunk :p ) so I have nothing I can directly compare it to. were some similarities to be absolutely smashed drunk or meningitis but quite different.

    After that, thinking I was well, one sunny da I decided to walk up the street to get family groceries etc as I usually did, mile each way, used to get stuff for us, gran/grandpa, dad, aunt.
    Was half way up the route when the sickness/weakness of ME just sucked the life out of me, kept struggling never having had it before, by that point I just collapsed against a wall wondering WTF was going on?
    repeated experiences eventually lead me to go to our GP
    On seeing me I do recall he said "Oh we don't' see you hear often, what can I do for you?" so this idea of us being hypochondriacs is BULLSHIT, hate hate hate bothering people or being bothered (beyond niceties or helping folk).

    So, no they didn't "force" the damp proofing ;) but the bureaucratic stupidity of the local councils etc here is mind numbing at times!
    And there was no way peons like us could fight 'em, lol take 'em to court? it's stitched up 3 ways from Sunday.
    And where could we move? we couldn't' afford private renting, and it takes years to arrange a council house swap
     
    South, cigana, rosa and 5 others like this.
  16. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

    Messages:
    858
    Likes:
    1,079
    This is why I think so little governmental effort is being put into studying CFS/ME. My guess is that the true cause of these illnesses is from the accumulated ingestion of various government approved toxins such as pesticides, mercury, fluoride, MSG, antibiotics, vaccines, amongst countless other food and drug additives

    Trying to find a cure would inevitably lead to the discovery and disclosure of the true origins of these conditions. If this was to ever be publicly revealed, the liability claims and banning of these various substances could easily cripple several governments and industries.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
    Abha, cigana, sarah darwins and 7 others like this.
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,359
    Likes:
    14,700
    Sounds like a line from Mike Adams the Health Ranger.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
  18. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

    Messages:
    858
    Likes:
    1,079
    Or a description of 90% of the discussions on these forums.
     
    picante likes this.
  19. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes:
    3,562
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Or the governments merely FEAR it's a possibility
    they often act out of stupidity because some Minister, Under Secretary or whatever is scared of NOT BEING IN CONTROL!!
    or some problem arises so they force it to "go away", regardless of facts, preventing investigation and certainty

    governments underwrite vaccines, they are NEVER going to allow anything that could prove there maybe serious issues with vaccines to be established, talking trillions of dollars in lawsuits, it would bring governments down, they know that, so...the BS Department is always at work
    and there is much collusion and corruption between Big business and government, one day a guy is head of a bank, next he's in charge of the finances of the nation, then he's in charge of the oversight system of finances and oh isn't it odd how he prevents exposure of corruption and stupidity that leads to financial disasters?

    and that S.O.P. of denying things of course prevents legitimate work that would show safety as well as risk
    but they don't' care!
    rich and powerful will do ANYTHING to keep their position
    this article *PROVES* that
     
    JPV likes this.
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,359
    Likes:
    14,700
    Well, there seems to be no shortage of fans of Mike Adams and the seductive philosophy he subscribes to which views Mother Nature as perfect and benign, and diseases as manmade. I think many people find this philosophy attractive because it paints a picture of an ultimately good and nurturing world, and one in which everything would be fine if only the human race had not messed it up. Me, I think Mother Nature is a bitch.
     
    cigana and Valentijn like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page