Green Light Therapy for CFS

[NotThisGuy]

I think it's time for a thread about green light.
1-2 months ago I was in a real bad shape after using FIR light on my liver. I didn't knew what was going on but it felt like dying.

Now I figured it was a mix of liver overload (elevated values), blood in urine, porphyria, muscle wasting caused by malnutrition and mitochondrial blockage. (I think my mitochondrias used my muscle as fuel)

I didn't know what to do. The only thing that helped me in the past months with severe issues was sun light.

Sun light still had side effects which I think is some kind of mild porphyria which got more severe during use of FIR.

Because there was no sun shining to safe me I went to a local sunpoint and used one of there machines which has green light and a little UVA and UVB.

I was only for 30 seconds in the tanning bed (they looked at me like I'm crazy and that I will need 5 minutes at least).
But those 30 seconds still had a great effect.
At first I felt that my adrenals where overwhelmed but after 1 hour the positive effects kicked in.

-My POTS was GONE.
-I had the urgent need to communicate with people (usually I dont want to talk to anyone at all)
-My MCAS symptoms got better (I wanted to eat some foods I would usually not tolerate)
-My overloaded liver improved a lot (couldnt eat meat for days after the FIR crash, after green light it was no problem anymore)
-Insomnia and weird sleep cycle was gone
- CFS and PEM improved a LOT

The manufactor doesn't tell a lot of the green light product, they just mention that it increases NO (nitric oxide)


I didn't go there a second time for a while because in my experience everything I try backfires sooner or later.

Time has passed and again I had a better phase.
Only thing I changed was keeping my window open for 24 hours to avoid mold.
I had some great energy burst because of this and overdid it and walked for 20 minutes everyday outside.

The first 2 days walking felt great. I had lactic acid burn in my legs. (The good one that feels like something is healing there)

The next 2 days weren't that great and I didn't felt that lactic acid burn anymore but I still pushed myself through it (so stupid)

The third day the big crash came. My muscles coudn't work at all and again I had this feeling of dying with severe anxiety.
It was a completely new CFS level for me.

I had a really hard time making some food and going to the bathroom because of my weak and cramped muscles.
I was so exhausted I had to spend all the time in my bed.

Again I knew no way out of this and since it didn't seem to get better (even sun light failed me this time) I once again went to the sunpoint for some green light.

This time the magic wasn't as strong as the first time.
Maybe because I'm worse at the moment than before but it still worked!!!

After 2 days with each time 30 seconds of green light I am not bed bound anymore.
Still have severe muscle fatigue but not as bad as before.
Also I don't feel like dying anymore and no anxiety anymore.
I also think the muscle wasting stopped and that I gained a little bit of weight again.

Still looking for ways to improve nitric oxide.
Some blood parameters:
Arginine: 99 (30-140)
Ornithine: 67 (29-115)
Citrulline: 22 (10-56)

In relation Arginine is the highest, ornithine is a little low and citrulline is the lowest.
My uric acid and urea is low. So something is not quite right with the urea cycle.
I also think I have low BH4.

@Hip maybe thats interesting for you since I know you had the same experience with nitric oxide regarding depression (At least I think it was you who posted to get more social by increasing NO)

 

[gregh286]

interesting
I always supported NO increase.
Strangely it improved your POTS as NO is vasodilator.

See thead: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...since-starting-nitric-oxide-supplement.43761/

 

[NotThisGuy]

interesting
I always supported NO increase.
Strangely it improved your POTS as NO is vasodilator.

See thead: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...since-starting-nitric-oxide-supplement.43761/

Yes, NO is supposed to lower blood pressure as well.
I have low BP and high heart rate.

NO increases my BP and lowers my heart rate.

 

[gregh286]

Yes, NO is supposed to lower blood pressure as well.
I have low BP and high heart rate.

NO increases my BP and lowers my heart rate.

Great that you noticed that. I think the bh4 is more a problem than having low arginine. I recall ron Davies noticed that with Whitney.....very low bh4 and biotin.
No doubt endothelial dysfunction is my major symptom from past when I was worse. Numb hands....pale skin...cold feet...tingling...
Blood pressure spikes to 250/100 under light exercise......vessels not dilating as should.

Keep us posted.

 

[Hip]

The manufactor doesn't tell a lot of the green light product, they just mention that it increases NO (nitric oxide)

@Hip maybe thats interesting for you since I know you had the same experience with nitric oxide regarding depression (At least I think it was you who posted to get more social by increasing NO)

I can't find any studies or articles about green light causing an increase in nitric oxide (NO), apart from this study on green light increasing NO and muscle growth in chicken embryos in eggs.

So it does not seem like there is any science to be found that supports this idea that green light generates NO. You might want to ask the tanning bed manufacturers for a scientific reference.



Also, green light is a component of white light, so when you are exposed to white light (from the sun, or from artificial illumination), you will be getting some green light exposure.


There is some info here about the blue component of sunlight stimulating T cells.

 

[raghav]

@NotThisGuy Do you have details of the green light device ?

 

[Hip]

I have just been searching for general biological effects of green light, and came across this paper (full text here), which states that in rat cerebellum cells in vitro:

Oxygen uptake was suppressed by 530 nm radiation leading eventually to death, but respiration was unaffected by 694 nm. The 530 nm radiation also blocked electron transport from cytochrome b or cytochrome c. A ruby laser emitting the same radiant flux at 601 and 610 nm was without effect.

So green light at around the 530 nm wavelength would appear to have some effects on mitochondria and the energy metabolism of cells.

 

[NotThisGuy]

@NotThisGuy Do you have details of the green light device ?

Online I only found this website in german:
http://www.sonnenprojekt.de/solarien-biolicht.php

That is not the manufacture of the tanning bed they have there.
I'll be there tomorrow again and look for further details.

I have just been searching for general biological effects of green light, and came across this paper (full text here), which states that in rat cerebellum cells in vitro:


So green light at around the 530 nm wavelength would appear to have some effects on mitochondria and the energy metabolism of cells.

So.. suppressed oxygen uptake and death is a bad thing isn't it?
How can it support the mitos if it supresses oxygen uptake?

I think my mitos are indeed working better. Otherwise I would have never posted this here due lack of energy.

@Hip Sun doesn't give me the same effect as the green light only!
In the past it helped a lot especially with energy and mitos, but not that much anymore. Maybe because the summer is almost over and the sun has now more red light and less blue and green.

 

[NotThisGuy]

I also forgot to mention that it really helped with anxiety, which was pretty severe.

On PR I found this threads about green light:

Helps with migraine: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/webmd-green-light-reduces-migraine-pain.44867/

 

[Hip]

So.. suppressed oxygen uptake and death is a bad thing isn't it?
How can it support the mitos if it supresses oxygen uptake?

Hard to say, but a brief transient suppression of mitochondrial complex III (via the action of green light on cytochrome b and cytochrome c) might afterwards have some positive effects. However, this mitochondrial explanation does not seem very plausible, because green light does not penetrate very much into the body (probably penetrates less that a centimeter under the skin).

Green light would likely reach the blood cells, though, since blood flows just beneath the skin surface.

At the moment, however, I find it a bit hard to believe that just 30 seconds of green light could have any effect at all, with such a short time period. So I would look for other explanations for your temporarily improved symptoms, such as the effects from the UV light (vitamin D, etc). We will see what happens when you visit the tanning salon again.

@Hip Sun doesn't give me the same effect as the green light only!

So you would need a good explanation of why that is: why does green light (plus the UV) in the tanning salon have an effect, whereas the same green light and UV found within sunlight does not?

Online I only found this website in german:
http://www.sonnenprojekt.de/solarien-biolicht.php

This page (from you above link) about the "green light revolution" is full of nonsense and pseudoscience about "biophotons". There is nothing scientific on that page, so it's not much use.

 

[NotThisGuy]

I know the website is only marketing shit. Just wanted to post anything so people at least how these things look like.
Didn't know you speak german .

I dont know why the effect of 30 seconds is so hard to believe. I get increased blood pressure and tachycardia after 10 seconds on the tanning bed, maybe unrelated because I'm so sensitive.

I pretty much overreact to anything, also supplements. So when I tell a Dr. 0.1 mg of iron divided in tiny doses over day stops my incredible thirst and polyuria they dont believe me as well. It's CFS. The impossible is possible.

However as soon as I feel better and I am out of the months lasting crash I will try a UVB and UVA only tanning bed.
I'll see if it has the same effect.

UVA and UVB are supposed to be weak on the green light product.

So you would need a good explanation of why that is: why does green light (plus the UV) in the tanning salon have an effect, whereas the same green light and UV found within sunlight does not?

This is exactly the question.
I found a few articles about NASA investigating into light therapy for the astronauts.

http://www.sunnexbiotech.com/blue light therapy vs green light therapy.html

Here they explain a shift in circadian rhythms.
It's also said that green light might suppress melatonine.

Maybe in the end it's improving HPA issues?

But I'm wearing safety googles. They aren't fully closed and still let some light through (because the fully closed ones are covering too much of the face and people go there to get brown and not healthy). Maybe not enough to compare it to studies linked to retinal light exposure.

Maybe the full spectrum of sun light is too much? Red light for example is supposed to increase inflammation. So I dont feel as good as green light only because there is too much inflammation going on?

Hard to say, but a brief transient suppression of mitochondrial complex III (via the action of green light on cytochrome b and cytochrome c) might afterwards have some positive effects. However, this mitochondrial explanation does not seem very plausible, because green light does not penetrate very much into the body (probably penetrates less that a centimeter under the skin).

Isn't NO promoting mitochondrial growth? If green light increases NO that might be an explanation.
Like I said the effect needs at least 1-2 hours until it kicks in. It is fully there after 2-3 hours.

 

[Hip]

Didn't know you speak german

Unfortunately I don't, but I have a multilingual friend named Google who does!

I found a few articles about NASA investigating into light therapy for the astronauts.

http://www.sunnexbiotech.com/blue light therapy vs green light therapy.html

Here they explain a shift in circadian rhythms.

Yes, the retinal ganglion cells at the back of the eye, which are responsible for sensing light cues in the environment in order to set the circadian rhythm, have their peak sensitivity in the green part of the spectrum. But the slow changes in circadian rhythm triggered by these cells takes many days of strong light exposure to have an effect, and anyway, you say you were wearing protective googles.

UVA and UVB are supposed to be weak on the green light product.

If you can find out the peak wavelength of the green light lamps used, maybe you will be able to buy a lamp of the same wavelength which you can use at home as a test.

 

[sb4]

is full of nonsense and pseudoscience about "biophotons"

Not sure why you think this is pseudoscience.

Definition of biophoton is : Biophotons (from the Greek βίος meaning "life" and φῶς meaning "light") are photons of light in the ultraviolet and low visible light range that are produced by a biological system.

There are also studies that confirm this is true : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15947465

As for the green light, I was using a quantlet which contains green light, on my radial artery for about a month (until it broke). I noticed small but significant improvements with it. It also contained violet, blue, red, IR. However I have other red IR devices that I had been using before so I think the other colors could have been responsible for the improvement.

 

[Valentijn]

Definition of biophoton is : Biophotons (from the Greek βίος meaning "life" and φῶς meaning "light") are photons of light in the ultraviolet and low visible light range that are produced by a biological system.

Scroll down a bit further on the same wikipedia page to get to the section on pseudoscience.

 

[sb4]

Scroll down a bit further on the same wikipedia page to get to the section on pseudoscience.

I have now read the wiki entry as well as the reference it provided but I am not seeing why biophotons are pseudoscience. I understand scam artists could peddle some bull products with it, but that doesn't mean anything to do with biophotons is quackery.

The wiki article says F Pop is not a quack and is experienced in the area. Fritz Pop found that compounds that where almost identical yet absorbed light at 380nm where carcinogenic. Some people may use this to scam but its possible some may use this to actually improve health

 

[Valentijn]

This page (from you above link) about the "green light revolution" is full of nonsense and pseudoscience about "biophotons".

I have now read the wiki entry as well as the reference it provided but I am not seeing why biophotons are pseudoscience. I understand scam artists could peddle some bull products with it, but that doesn't mean anything to do with biophotons is quackery.

@Hip didn't say that biophotons are pseudoscience, but rather that a site contains pseudoscience regarding the use of them as a therapy.

 

[sb4]

@Hip didn't say that biophotons are pseudoscience, but rather that a site contains pseudoscience regarding the use of them as a therapy.

You are right, I misread it.