1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The ePatient Revolution
Ryan Prior shares his experience and his thoughts from attending the Stanford Medicine X Conference as he contemplates the rising of the ePatient Revolution ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Got my 23andme results! 4 reds, 8 yellows

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by Beyond, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    Couldnt discover how to upload the colourful image so here are the mutations:​
    METHYLATION
    Homozigous
    • VDR Taq
    • MAO-A R297R (this is the "warrior" gene! I knew it :rolleyes: )
    • BHMT-08
    • CBS C699T
    Heterozygous:
    MTHFR 03 P39P
    MTHFR A1298C
    COMT V158M
    • COMT H62H
    • MTR A2756G
    • MTRR A66G
    • MTRR A664A
    • SHMT1 C1420T
    Detox:
    Homozygous:​
    CYP1B1 L432V
    CYP1A2 164A>C
    CYP1B1 R48G
    GSTP1 I105V
    SOD2 A16V
    NAT2 I114T
    NAT2 K268R
    VDR Fok, BHMT-01 and
    MTRR S257T
    are n/a, which means I will never know if I have them right?
    OK if there is not enough data about MTHFR
    03 P39P, why does genetic genie include it in the chart? o_O
    I have the CBS gene homozygous, yet I can take lots of NAC or sulfur things and dont feel worse than usual. Maybe its not expressed or maybe I just feel so low all the time that its hard to tell :p I eat paleo, so its not my diet if its expressed. Anyone knows what do mean the detox genes I have or what to do with them?
    I am doing my own research but would greatly appreciate the insight of people. Thanks!
    PD: Wow! I managed to make this VERY messed up! Sorry. I cannot edit it correctly for some reason.​
     
  2. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    Hehe, somewhat improved it. ;)

    The detox profile genes are quite intriguing I must say! I am googling them and it seems I have problems with xenobiotics.
     
  3. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    I am finding some fascinating stuff. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22225920 This one study points in the direction my intuition and research were pointing to. http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=112262 The ways to improve antioxidant status and detoxification are multiple and I am already boosting it with veggie juicing, healthy diet and kefir, but of course I want more effective ways of bypassing my mutations. I assume I have more than the ones on 23andme.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14633213 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17333395 As far as my methylation, the treatment seems fairly easy. I need methylcobalamin, sAME, DMG, methylfolate, shmt drops, vitamin D... maybe lithium? Also I need to test if CBS its expressed with strips. The CBS treatment its quite explored by others already.

    Great, just discovered I have the worst CBS mutation of the three, and homozigous :cautious:
    Guess I wont be eating so Paleo anymore! God, this is gonna be very expensive, I wish I didnt have this mutation, but on the positive side it explains my health condition.
     
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,711
    Likes:
    10,215
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    The Yasko interpretation is badly flawed. Yes, that SNP does mildly affect CBS function, but the 10x claims are based on a completely inapplicable study. If you're worried about sulfur levels, I'd suggest getting some sulfur test strips before making any extreme changes.
     
  5. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    Yep, Valentijin, thats exactly what I am gonna do. I never felt like sulfur was a problem, or high protein for that matter. I want to make sure that the CBS thingie its actually a problem for me.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  6. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    Could someone give their opinion about if my mutations are severe and/or abundant enough to embark in the expenses and miseries of doing a methylation protocol? It seems the CBS could be actually a very serious mutation, but I am still trying to get proofs of it. Also, my detox mutations are FAR worse than the methylation ones, its this correct? I wonder if it would be useful trying to correct them somehow. Like, what would be the best way to increase glutathione/detox for me? Methylation protocol right?
     
  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,711
    Likes:
    10,215
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    No, the CBS is not a serious mutation. It is a very common one, and has very little impact on the functioning of the gene. Unfortunately Yasko's reading of the existing research seems to have been rather sloppy, and she based the "upregulated by a factor of ten!!!!!111!!!!ONE!!!11!!!!" claims upon a study involving a specially engineered version of the gene designed to exaggerate the effects it was having.

    So if you're a lab-created yeast of some sort, then you might need to worry about that CBS variant. But as a human, you're probably safe.

    VDR Taq, BHMT-08, and the CBS do have research documenting that they have mild impact upon gene function. But we're talking a percentage point or two, nothing dramatic.
     
  8. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Be that as it may, I have CBS C699T +/-, had no problem with meat or sulfur supps like MSM. Yet when I tried to take hydroxy or methylcobalamin, I experienced the CBS stress/anxiety reaction with an amount as low as 1mcg. I've since found out that BHMTs can add to CBS or even create a CBS type situation even if you don't have the CBS SNP.

    My urine sulfate was high. I went through a CBS protocol for several months, and now I can tolerate 55mcg of B12 (limited by metal detox symptoms). I have every expectation that I will be able to take 1000mcg or whatever once I get through this metal detox phase.

    Your CBS is homozygous as is your BHMT. I have more BHMTs, but those and my CBS are all hetero. So who knows what that means in terms of SNPs? The important thing is what is happening functionally.

    Note, that I kept on eating meat while treating CBS. I followed the Free Thiol diet instead - it works just as well for most people, but it's much less restrictive. The link is in my signature. Other than that, I followed Heartfixer for CBS.
     
  9. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    That would make sense caledonia, because when I used a supplement called MethylGuard that contains methylcobalamin I felt happier and more sociable (nothing dramatic) for two weeks or one and then BAM one day psychiatric symptoms hammered me. I´m talking about very scary feelings and thoughts. It had to be overmethylation and/or heavy metal detox. I also really wonder about that MTHFR P39P!!
     
  10. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    Valentijn I guess Yasko its perhaps exaggerating to some extent, but some people report success following CBS guidelines. Maybe one day we will have studies regarding all these genes and their impact in humans, but wont be in this decade I fear.
     
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,711
    Likes:
    10,215
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    There are studies, and they show the effects to be quite minor. I have no problem with people finding that "protocol X" works, but saying that most of these SNPs are extremely important is just wrong. There's no foundation for most of those claims, and a fair bit of evidence to the contrary.
     
  12. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    Wow! You guys should be browsing raw data in 23andme. I just found out I have three homozigous mutations in the GSTM1 genes and seven in the GSTP1 that genetic genie does not test for. I have a lot more mutations but dont know what its the "name" of the snp´s, example: the rs-etc for ac1298...
     
  13. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,711
    Likes:
    10,215
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    Most of them don't mean anything. If you want to look for rare genes, http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/23andme/23andMe_index2.htm currently has a program for that, and some of us have been comparing results on another thread to see if we can find any shared abnormalities.
     
  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,711
    Likes:
    10,215
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    The thread about the rare results, as well as the SNPs for other people's rare results, is at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/rare-allele-data.23978/ . The program to find those rare results is complicated (I'm working on making a much simpler version), but you can also look up the rare SNPs we've found in ourselves and see if you have them too, in your 23andMe raw data.
     
  15. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    948
    Likes:
    534
    Murcia, Spain
    caledonia I just found this http://www.iherb.com/Metabolic-Maintenance-B-Complex-100-Capsules/37558 and thought it was the shiznit because has all the vitamins plus methyls, but then remembered you saying that you cannot tolerate a lot of active B12. Because of past experiences, being sure of metal toxicity and my genes I fear it would be similar for me. Did your experience the agitation right away with the supplement or it took time to apper? I wonder how do you manage to take such a tiny dosage, 55 mcg?
     
  16. trollo

    trollo Senior Member

    Messages:
    130
    Likes:
    10
    Italy
    Caledonia how could you be able to assume 1 mcg of methylb12????

    Is it necessary to use both sulfates and sulfites strips or just sulfates could be enough? What s the difference between ammonia and sulfate/sulfite?
     
  17. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    I wouldn't call it agitation exactly. Agitation to me is being revved up and compelled to move, even when you're exhausted. Like you drank several pots of coffee.

    It was more like stress/anxiety, similar to if you had a family member seriously ill, or a lot of stress and deadlines at work. So it was kind of subtle at first, but by the second or third day I was wondering why my shoulder/neck muscles were tight and hurt, and why I was feeling stressed and anxious. I stopped the supp and it went away in a day or so. Then I restarted and it came back again pretty quick within the same day even (by then I was cued into what the feeling was).

    I'll write a separate post on how I make such tiny doses, since I got the same question twice.
     
  18. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    The sulfate strip is what you want. The link is in my signature. I don't know what to say what the difference is between and ammonia and sulfate. They're two different substances. But the thing that makes them important for CBS is that they're both detoxed through the SUOX SNP at the bottom of the transsulfuration pathway.

    If you look at a methylation pathway diagram, CBS is at the top and SUOX is at the bottom. If CBS is expressed and you have the CBS drain problem, then ammonia and sulfur will come shooting down the pathway at an accelerated rate. Then it will be too much for SUOX to handle. So they have to go somewhere, which will be to the cortisol pathway causing stress and anxiety.

    So what you do, cut down on ammonia and sulfate via dietary restriction and supplements, and also help SUOX work better with molybdenum. I believe the ammonia and sulfur are stored in the body, so what you're doing is reducing the input of new ammonia and sulfur and allowing the stored ammonia and sulfur to detox out. Then once the stores are depleted, and you have SUOX supported, you won't have the CBS drain problem any more, and you should be able to tolerate methyl supplements without stress/anxiety.

    You can measure both ammonia and sulfate, but the ammonia test is more expensive. So most people just opt to measure sulfate with the strips.

    Next post will be how do I reduce methylB12 down to 1 mcg.
     
  19. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,039
    Likes:
    1,711
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Here's how I reduce my B12 to tiny amounts. I'm using Douglas Labs Methylcobalamin Liquid, which is quite effective. You hold it under your tongue for 30 seconds so it's taken sublingually.

    Each dropperful is 1000mcg. You need to dilute it down with water.

    Go to Amazon and buy an eyedropper bottle (or a couple in case you need to dilute other things such as adenosylcobalamin). Get the kind with brown glass to block light. This will keep the B12 solution from degrading.

    Suck up a dropperful of methylcobalamin up to the 1ml mark on the dropper. Drop it slowly back into it's bottle and count the # of drops contained in one dropperful. My bottle has 18.

    So 1000mcg divided by 18 drops = 55mcg per drop

    If that's not small enough to start with, this is where your brown eyedropper bottle comes in. Add one drop of methylcobalamin to the brown bottle. Now take the glass eyedropper that comes with it and add 55 drops of water (technically it's 54, but 55 is close enough and easier to remember). Now each drop will be 1 mcg.

    Write down your formula so you don't forget it, as you'll need to keep replenishing it. I put a piece of tape on the bottle and write it on there.

    =-==-=-=-=-

    You can do a similar thing with Yasko adenosylcobalamin and hydroxycobalamin liquids. For those, 1 drop = 1000mcg. You could simply put one drop in a brown bottle and add 1000 drops of water. But I don't feel like sitting there counting 1000 drops of water, and with concentration problems, I doubt it would be accurate.

    So what I do is put 1 drop (1000mcg) adenosyl in a brown bottle and put in 10 drops of water. Or 3 drops adenosyl and 30 drops just to get some more volume in there to make it easier to suck up. It's the same ratio. That makes each drop 100 mcg.

    Then I take a second brown bottle and put one drop of the diluted adenosyl in and add 100 drops of water. This makes each drop 1 mcg.

    =-=-=--
    You can make other formulas as desired, such as 1 drop = 2 mcg and so on. Write down your formulas so you don't have to recalculate!
     
    Beyond likes this.
  20. trollo

    trollo Senior Member

    Messages:
    130
    Likes:
    10
    Italy
    Ok. I thought that sulfites were more important because they are more toxic. Ammonia in blood, or at least ammonium, is very cheap. It seems that almost every food is high in sulfur or ammonia. As i'm already vegetarian i don t know how could i change my diet... My question was more related to the two different circle the ammonia (left and high position) and the sulfuration pathway down the methionine cicle... it seemed to me that sulfur wass produced from ammonia... but i see they two different elements... but in what the two circles are linked??
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page