A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
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Good Multivitamin / Multimineral ?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by dannybex, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hello,

    I'm looking for a decent, basic multivitamin/multimineral, but without any added herbs (as I may be salicylate intolerant) or 'candy'-coatings, to keep down the added chemicals/binders in the supplement, and no added aminos like cysteine, glutamine, etc. Just a basic, reliable multi with a good balance (no super-high vitamin c's, etc.) of vitamins and minerals, including trace minerals.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks in advance friends.
     
  2. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    I'd try thorne's "basic detox supplements" but only 6 and not 12 caps, otherwise it is too heavy. It is the best quality out there I think. It does have silmarin extract but I think that thats not high in the salicylates? you can ask them, they have a phone number on the site. hmm it has a litle nac and msm added too I see... nevermind!!
    go for allergy research group/ nutricology they have very clean multi's for a good price http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/Multi-Vi-Min-without-Copper-Iron-150-Vegetarian-Caps-p-154.html
    Thorne has a clean one too and I prefer them: http://www.thorne.com/Products/Multiples/All_Multis/prd~VM1.jsp it has no iron and copper, which is a plus. I'd take 3 as opposed to 6 caps tho.
    pure encapsulations is another clean brand
     
  3. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Hi Danny,

    I looked for a multi at one point and finally gave up. I just have too many intolerances ... I eat healthy, take digestive enzymes, probiotics and a few others. For minerals, I was taking Enzymatic Kreb's cycle chelates and recently bought Solgar's chelated minerals. ... x

    PS. I remember reading once that you weren't able to do Paleo since it was low fat and wanted to let you know that I'm not on the low fat version. At one point, I read where Cordain was going to change his recommendation to include more fats but I haven't seen that yet. I'd be too thin and hungry all the time without some fats ... tc
     
  4. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I like the "NeuroPower" by NSI (sold through Vitacost) because it is economical and has a decent amount of a lot of vitamins/minerals. It has methylcobalmin and generally the better vitamin/mineral forms. NeuroPower may have some herbs in though, so you may want to check a different version of their multivitamins (they have about 7 or 8). I also like because it comes in tablet and capsule as I llike capsules due to breakdown and less fillers.

    Here is the link to another multivitamin that I'm going to try. This "community" which is mostly for anti-aging / longevity interest, has some very knowledgable members in relations to supplements and nootropics. They got together and had their own multi manufacturered and it looks good to me because of the reasons you stated "basic multivitamin/multimineral".
     
  5. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    The PWCs at our house take the Allergy Research Group/Nutricology version called MVM-A. The "A" is for antioxidant, I think. This one seems well-balanced for PWCs. You can check it out here: http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/MVM-A-Antioxidant-Protocol-180-Vegetarian-Capsules-p-155.html
     
  6. Live And Let Die

    Live And Let Die Senior Member

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    I take gnc's multivitamin for men. I didn't know which one to take so I picked that one since it has a bunch of stuff in it and the amounts looked reasonable.
     
  7. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    THANKS FRIENDS...interesting choices...

    Thank you all for replying with your suggestions -- I really appreciate them.

    This is gonna sound really nit-picky, but I guess I should've been a little more specific. I forgot to mention that I found out I have a methylation problem, and reacted really badly to too many methylation supps (prescribed by my (ex)-doc), so I can't tolerate (for now) any methyl b12's or 'active' folates (which are surprisingly in all of the Thorne products), but I do appreciate your mentioning them Leaves.

    (The excess active folates in the methylation protocol caused me to dump large amounts of mercury, causing severe anxiety, muscle twitching, cramping, extreme hypothermia and neuropathy. The silver lining is that now I know that mercury is a definite issue in my situation, causing a lot of other problems, and needs to be addressed, then I can SLOWLY restart the methylation supps. I'll start a thread on that some day...)

    The Multi-Vi-Min looks like a possibility, but I should probably find out what type of folic acid it has.

    SickofCFS...that other Allergy Research product looks great. I'm just a little worried about the ALA in it...as that may be a problem for people with heavy metal issues...unless it's taken every 3 hours, per the Andrew Cutler protocol. I've just restarted that protocol, and can definitely feel reactions from the lipoic acid. Many people can take it just fine if they don't have heavy metal toxicity.

    Unfortunately for that same reason, I can't take the NSI multi that August59 recommended -- it has a whopping 600mgs of ALA. Plus it also has several plant compounds high in salicylates and phenols. But thanks for the suggestion. :)

    XChocoholic: "I looked for a multi at one point and finally gave up. I just have too many intolerances..."

    Man, can I relate or what? :) So frustrating, but good to know that many of these intolerances can clear up, very slowly, if we can fix some of the things that might be causing them. Cutler says that many can go back to eating almost anything they want, after chelation -- but the chelation can often take YEARS. ugh.

    And yeah, I can't do too much paleo (esp high fat) as too much fats give me RLS-ish symptoms, and not enough "good" carbs makes me tense and irritable (and I lose weight). Rich analyzed my methylation test and NutrEval test, which showed that I wasn't using carbs or proteins or fats very well for energy! Great...but I'm confident we can fix this. Just wish it could be done in weeks, not years.

    Anyway, thanks to all. If anyone else has any more suggestions (after all my pickiness!), I'd appreciate them.
     
  8. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    Dannybex,
    In case this is any help to you:
    The recommended dose for MVM-A is 6 capsules, 2 at each meal. You could take 1 capsule every 2-3 hours to spread out the ALA per the Andrew Cutler protocol.

    Good luck!
     
  9. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    you could also just take a good multimineral with chelates, and add the vitamins separately?
    you mentioned neuropathy.. watch out with pyridoxine toxicity, of your body cant converge it to p5p (then you dont dream) it is toxic for the nerves. Maybe you can do a b6 test?
     
  10. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Excellent idea SickofCFS! Someone's brain is working a lot better than mine is... :)
     
  11. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi Leaves,

    That reminds me of your thread about sulfation issues. I just reread a couple pages. Is the b-6 a potential problem because if one can't convert it to p5p because with sulfation problems the PST enzyme doesn't work very well?

    My nutraEval test was kind of similar to yours -- high DHPPA and high-ish cysteine -- indicating sulfation problems and (I think) pst issues. It seems in the past that whenever I would take even small doses of b-6, I'd get tingly feet...

    ???
     
  12. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    It is known that pyridoxine is toxic in high doses. This can occur when your body can not converge it to the active p5p (of which no toxicity is known) then this builds up and can cause nerve damage. Therefore I dont recommend you taking the inactive b6, it can cause neuropathy.
    it takes about 6 months to clear the pyridoxine from your system, thereafter your nerves can heal, which can take another year. However you will also get new pyridoxine in your system from food (although lower amounts).
    It is a good idea to supplement with riboflavin, as this is a cofactor in the transformation from pyridoxine to p5p. There is also an active form of riboflavin, not sure if that is preferable.
    btw I found that authia cream (activated thiamin) and R-lipoic acid helps my nerves heal. Note that symptoms such as pain and numbness may actually increase for a while when healing.

    P5p does inhibit pst, so if that is a problem, we are in a vicious circle. I dont know. I have avoided salicylates for some time but it did not make me feel better so I stopped doing that. My nutraeval tests did suggest I need a lot of p5p. yours? Do you dream?

    Note that b6 DEFICIENCY can also cause neuropathy, so make sure you know at what end you are.

    Btw I also went back to that thread.. (seems like ages ago. when I had still some of my brain left..) and I do find that sam-e helps me. so increasing ATP is probably the way to go.
    For me both cysteine and cysthethionine where high so I need p5p, magnesium, and atp I think.

    Maybe I should start taking creatine for the ATP?? or NADH.
     
  13. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    B6 + p5p + magnesium + b2 to kick start the PST enzyme...?

    Hi Leaves,

    I was trying to read more on the whole b-6 / p5p / PST thing, and not sure if I have this sorted out yet, but from what my mushy brain can figure out...both p5p and b6 can inhibit the PST enzyme, but if you take a small amount of magnesium with it, this inhibition is reversed -- so it's important to take them together.

    And yes -- apparently B2 -- riboflavin also helps work w/ b6 to help the PST enzyme work better.

    I've got the neuropathy (since this methylation/heavy metal dump back in Oct-Nov), and perhaps because of the sulfation problem too -- I could never tolerate very much b6 at all, so I avoided it) -- plus, the only time I barely remember my dreams, is when I take a supplement called "True Calm" (by Now vitamins) that contains among other things, gaba, glycine, b6 and magnesium!

    We'll figure this out eventually. :)
     
  14. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    AH! So if I understand correctly it is important for us to take

    for our high cysteine and cysthathione
    - magnesium
    - p5p
    --taurine
    -vitamin c (I take 2 gram time released)
    -histidine and glycine
    -molybdenum <50mg
    -Sam-e (I take 800 mg in the morning)
    - nadh or ribose or creatine (for ATP)

    for our neuropathy
    -NO pyridoxine
    -activated thiamin and R-LA helps me, carnitine might too
    -riboflavin

    for the PST enzyme
    -riboflavin or riboflavin 5 phosphate
    -magnesium

    Is that correct?
     
  15. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi Leaves,

    We should probably get Rich Van K over here to help us figure this out.

    It's my understanding that one would use either B6 or the activated B6 (p5p) to help the sulfation pathway and the PST enzyme -- but magnesium and b2 need to be taken with b6/p5p to activate the pst enzyme. B6 or p5p alone will inhibit it...I think.

    B6 and/or p5p is supposed to be good for neuropathy, but perhaps there is an problem if one has sulfation problems -- do you know? Again, maybe the magnesium/b2 help with this as when all three are taken together.

    I'm taking taurine and an occasional moly-b, but forgot about the glycine (which I think is supposed to help with phenols/salicylates too).

    Do you know if you have a heavy metal (mercury, arsenic, cadmium, lead, etc.,) problem?

    I know I do, so I can't take ALA or R LA unless I do it per Cutler.

    Now I'm trying to find a truly balanced B vitamin (without the active forms, and not one of those b-50's, which aren't really balanced.)........ :)
     
  16. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    b6 in the inactive form (i.e. pyridoxine) is BAD for neuropathy if you cannot converge it to p5p. b6 in itself is useless; you need p5p.

    I have no heavy metal toxicity fortunately.
     
  17. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    I like Ultra Preventive X multi.
     

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