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GMO"s, GAPS diet, Paleo diet, Wahl's diet, Miso and Fermented foods

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Zensational, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. Zensational

    Zensational

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    I'm having considerable GI problems and have for years. I am aware that the majority of Serotonin is made in the gut. I am also aware the GMO foods can affect the lining of the gut which is even worse for CFS/ME people.
    So with the bloating, constipation, pain and general muscle aches, sleep deprivation and frequent illnesses I have decided that I will try one of these diets. Paleo, GAPS, or Wahl's.
    Can anyone tell me of their experiences with any of these diets.

    I was on a strict macrobiotic healing diet for two years back in the early 1990's. I did not feel any better but lost a lot of weight. The macro diet relies heavily on grains, particularly brown rice, quinoa, etc. So I'm thinking that even though I was eating a lot of the good fermented miso, that the grains might have been a problem for me.

    I am living in anticipation of my healing.
  2. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    I am have a very low carb diet for my POTS/Dysautonomia. No simple carbs like rice, potatoes, no gluten and super low sugar. I follow most of the Wahl's diet. I eat sea veggies and other veggies but I don't measure. I eat nuts and good carbs,veggies, protein, sea food, fruit, fiber. I make an amazing smoothie daily, I eat dark choc that I make every day. I make sure everything I eat is FULL of nutrients like Dr. Wahl's diet. A varied diet is important.

    I take great supplements three times a day and that is part of my healing also. Good bio hormones, Probiotics are also key for me.
  3. Zensational

    Zensational

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    Interesting, seems like it's working for you. I know on the GAPS diet they want you to eat bone marrow. I'm just thinking of where I can get organic meet with a bone. Most butchers don't have organic meat. Maybe Whole Foods. I will most likely do organic miso soup which is easy to do along with the other fermented vegetables and meats. I am a bit concerned about constipation.
  4. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    If you drink the smoothie I do with blueberries, kale, oats, ground flax, carrots, apple, etc. constipation is impossible.:) Solubel and insoluble fiber keeps food moving and that is great. Also, I drink a lot of water for my POTS and fish oil is also good for that.
  5. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    I had a lot less energy/strength and much more severe stomach symptoms on a macrobiotic diet. My stomach just can't cope with a lot of fermented foods like miso. The results are more bloating, pain and loose BM problems.

    Fibre is a big problem for me so smoothies also created extra symptoms and a decrease in physical functioning.

    The best diet for me is one that I have created over decades and I suspect that it's going to be so personal that a diet from a book or doctor isn't going to be a one fits all solution.

    It's important to cut out fibre, fermented foods and eat as much "simple" other food that I can. Meat protein means more strength and energy for me. Simple starches like white rice (brown causes problems) and white bread at times I can tolerate them. Lots of salads and simply prepared meat.

    I can't tolerate nuts, mushrooms, many green veges and many fruits. If I concentrate on the things that I can tolerate my physical functioning is better.
  6. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I have tried many types of diet for my stomach woes - although being a vegetarian paleo is very hard. Ive tried dairy free, candida, paleo (with rice) , gluten free and sometimes all of them at once. In the end it turns out i have gastritis (still not got to the bottom of why) i also had severe candida which cleared up on anticandida diet.

    In the end, nothing much made a difference to my gut at all. Kefir helped fr a while but then seemed to make it worse (i was using soya, so might have been that)

    Now i eat what i call a real food diet - most of the week i eat no sugar, limited fruit, and no junk at all - only real food that has to be prepared - vegetables, nuts, tofu, dairy, some fish occasionally i also eat brown bread and white rice. The key for me isthat i now i eat what i feel like eating, rather than worrying about what it is. This way it has been easier for me to work out what suits me and what doesnt.

    Diet is so individual and i feel that with gut issues, the best way is to get comprehensive testing for bacterial overgrowth, parasites, infections, food allergies etc to find out what is really causing the issues. I havent done this yet, but am planning on doing so if i can get to an M.E specialist in Europe next year.

    Good luck with your hunt for a suitable diet
    Justy .
  7. Zensational

    Zensational

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    We just got through making our first round of fermented vegetables. I bought some organic beef liver at Whole Foods and will start introducing the diet as soon as the veggies are fully fermented. In the meantime I'm going to purchase online some organic miso. The macro diet relies heavily on grains so this will be a departure from that. We'll see how it goes.
  8. minimus

    minimus

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    I am a patient of Paul Cheney's. He advocates a fairly "clean" diet -- avoid sugar, including fruits, eat a lot of organic vegetables if possible, and eat free-range poultry, low-mercury fish, and free-range meat if possible.

    I have not always followed his advice on diet, because eating starches -- baked goods, most notably -- is more satisfying than eating a plate of grilled chicken and cauliflower. However, I have had worsening problems with reflux for a while. I went to a chiropractor in New York who recommended I try a Paleo diet to see if that would help with reflux. He also recommended I read the blog of a nutritionist named Chris Kresser -- who advocates a "Paleo template" rather than a strict Paleo. Kresser seems to be very well-informed, and makes a pretty convincing case that a lot of gastro woes are related to fructose and grain malabsorbtion. (Cheney has a similar view, namely that CFS patients have slow gastric emptying, which means that starches and fructose tend to ferment in the gut, undigested molecules pass through the intestinal barrier undigested and cause immune activation, fatigue, cognitive impairment, bloating, etc.)

    In any case, I have tried to follow a Paleo diet for the last few months. This meant cutting way back on grains, and sticking as much as possible to vegetables and good quality meats, poultry, and fish. I have found that my energy is better and a lot more stable than it used to be. Also, my digestion seems to work better -- less bloating and constipation -- than before. I have found that I cannot tolerate dairy, even yogurt or kefir. I have also managed to lose about 10 pounds or so of body fat, which I am happy about.

    The main downside to this diet is that it involves a fair amount of work. It is more work to shop for and cook meats, poultry, fish, vegetables than to make a pot of brown rice or pasta or to toast bread. Of course, if someone in your household is willing to cook for you, this would not a big problem.

    Overall, I would say that a Paleo-like diet is well worth trying. The initial adjustment can be difficult, but the benefits are substantial in my experience.
  9. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    Good that this works for you Sally, but I've done diets like this for months on end and they make no difference to constipation.

    Jenny
  10. Zensational

    Zensational

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    I totally agree with that statement. The grains, especially wheat and corn, are not the same grains our parents grew up with. We went shopping for veggies yesterday and made several jars of the fremented veggies with cabbage, etc, a jar of pickles and a jar of ginger beets. They are fermenting now. I think we are going out to the country to get our organic meat and poultry.
    I know for sure that my intense brain fog is related to my gut issues. I have read that it takes a year or two to heal the gut.
    I have tried the smoothies too without much luck.
    Has anyone tried Glutamine. That is supposed to heal the gut as well.
  11. Zensational

    Zensational

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    I forgot to mention that my large intestine is folded over on itself. It's called "Redundant". I believe that this is a result of many years of this illness.
  12. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    Zensational~ I wish you the best in trying to figure out your GI problems. Personally, I don't have GI issues, but I do try to eat very healthfully. I have recently ordered Dr. Wahl's book as I am interested in her story. I love grains and beans so it would be hard for me to follow her diet, but because of here I have increased my veggie intake significantly (even buying kale and collard greens on a regular basis!)

    Have you been tested for gluten sensitivity? That can cause bloating and your other symptoms. What is your serum B12? A low B12 can also cause brain fog.

    My husband has found certain foods give him grief....lactose in dairy products (so he uses Lact-Aid when he eats dairy foods), oats, peanuts and peanut butter, and blueberries.

    Best, Timaca
  13. KRR

    KRR

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    This reply is a little late, but in case you're still looking for grass-fed meat bones, I have ordered online from http://tropicaltraditions.com. Their beef bones are wonderful, very meaty and have lots of marrow.
  14. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    I tried glutamine. 10 gms a day for about 6 months then 3 gms for another 3 months. It did nothing.

    Jenny
  15. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I'm on the Wahls diet minus 6 cups of veggies per day. ; ) I gave up trying to eat or juice that much.

    I was paleo before that for about 4 years and
    eating too much meat and not enough of the rest. And gfcfsf etc since 2005. Before that I ate a
    semi "healthy" version of the sad. Healthy choice, healthy cereals, whole wheat, dairy, ...

    I can't digest cooked dried beans for some reason. They just constipate me.
    It's like my body pulls the fluid out of them and they get hard as rocks again. This happens no matter
    how I try to make them easier to digest.

    I make bone broth from the lamb at whole foods. But their beef, chicken, duck or fish would work too.

    For constipation, I gave up on dietary measures, like oils or fiber ever working for me and just drink natural calm at night.
    I use oils and eat plenty of fiber but it never made a difference. I need the magnesium citrate.

    I was an undiagnosed celiac tho until I was 50. That was 16 years post my me/cfs diagnosis. So my body
    had to deal with gluten for 16 years past the point of me becoming totally disabled.

    Tc .. X
  16. Yungas

    Yungas

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    Macrobiotic diet is weakening for most people IMO, especially in cold climates. Relies way to heavily on grain. Good diet for vegans or old ladies perhaps, not someone who wants robust health.

    Paleo is strengthening. Nutrient packed. Good for all types of people, young, old male or female. There is not really such a thing as vegetarian paleo. Many modern diseases can be improved and even cured through paleo diet.

    Gaps diet is great but should be used with caution by M.E sufferers, get a practitioner, because going straight into it with probiotics etc can cause "die off" symptoms.
  17. SusanB

    SusanB

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    I used to have terrible problems with diarrhea and stomach issues until about a year and a half ago. A friend recommended I talk to a nutritionist who used the L.E.A.P diet. She did a blood test and found out what foods I was sensitive to and I went on a very restricted diet for 6 weeks. The test showed I was sensitive to foods that surprised me - olive oil, watermelon, almonds, pistachios, and I forget what else. After the 6 weeks, I was supposed to go on a rotation diet, but never did. The theory is that if you stay away from the foods you are sensitive to for 6 weeks that it will give the gut time to heal. In my case it worked and I haven't had any issues since then.

    I'm now looking at the same diets that you are looking at in order to eat more nutritiously. I've heard very good things about Mark Sisson's Primitive Diet from people who were in semi-good health but overweight. What impressed me was how much their energy and sense of well-being increased. I've read Sisson's website and his ideas about healthy fats seems to be good for the brain. I would love to get rid of my brain fog!
  18. MARGARITA COLOMBO

    MARGARITA COLOMBO TAOWAY

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    Hi Zen, I just read your post and wanted to tell you how important it is for you to make your broth from organic chiken, when I did my broth with ordinary chicken from the supermarket after keeping it in the fridge it was all coverded with a gross layer of pure yellow fat. The diference with organic chicken is dramatic, what you get from the fridge next day is a jelly (im sorry x my english) textura and less greasy. What heals the gut is the jelly thing. Good luck!
  19. Zensational

    Zensational

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    Thanks, I do use organic meat. We got out bones from a local farm that raises grass-fed animals and doesn't use antibiotics. Costco has a good price on organic chickens. All organic meat is expensive.
    We have also been taking Moringa, an herb that is loaded with nutrients, so much so that you can live on just moringa and water if need be. My husband and I are noticing a big difference with this also. There's a lot of information on the web about Moringa.
  20. JT1024

    JT1024 Senior Member

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    I recently tried going dairy free, gluten free, soy free, and sugar free and I was making smoothies in the morning with almond milk, walnuts, almond or coconut milk, almond or coconut yogurt, organic cacao, flax seed powder, etc. Apparently I tried to change to much at once. My stomach/GI tract protested. While the first two days I had significant reduction in symptoms, the next 5-7 days were horrible.

    I'm still reducing my gluten, soy, sugar, and dairy load but not quite as aggressively.I'm not one to do anything "slow" so it has been a challenge for many years. I want to be well and I want to be well NOW!

    So much for my "wants"... one day at time is all I can handle.
    ggingues likes this.

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