Gluten: worth avoiding?

[Sasha]

Did you see that article on prohealth a few years ago about CFS and cytokines ? It explains how we need to reduce our cytokine load. If you google CFS cytokines prohealth it's still there ...

Thanks - I see that, I'll take a look.

Your doctors are weird!

 

[maryb]

I've been off gluten for about 5 years now, I think what the others have said makes sense the only way to try a GF diet is to eliminate it for at least 3 months. NOT EASY it really is in everything. Have to plan meals religiously and no grabbing a sandwich whilst out (my biggest complaint) shopping, trips etc. Potatoes and rice make up the bulk of my carbs plus a small amount of GF bread which has something in that my body doesn't like as well but hey we can't have everything.. Good thing is there are GF noodles, pasta etc available now too.
I used to buy GF bisuits but as I don't have sugar normally this was a problem, so I started making my own a while ago, I'm no baker but these are passable with a coffee (de-caff of course)

GF biscuit recipe
6oz rice flour
3oz sunflower spread(I use Pure)
1 small teaspoon of stevia (depending on how sweet you like things)
1 tbsp dessicated coconut (optional)
3 ginger capsules opened or a small amount of fresh ginger(optional)
1 egg
milk to bind
Rub butter and flour together until fine breadbrumbs, add dry ingredients, mix in egg and enough milk to make a pastry type mix. Dust with flour and roll, cut into biscuit shapes 1/4-1/3inch thick, (thickish biscuit they dont rise) bake on greased tray 160o fan oven for about 17-19 mins, will be pale golden. Check after 15mins though - don't leave them the first time. They keep in a tin for a couple of weeks.
I am going to make them with orange zest/little bit of juice and ginger next time leave the coconut out. Could add raisins etc. Whatever you can tolerate.
They only take a few minutes to make, I get the ingredients out the night before to save energy.

 

[Valentijn]

On the gluten free subject, my fiance suggested we get a bread maker that's specifically good for making gluten-free breads (I think - he did the research and ordering). He even volunteered to make breads when I'm feeling too icky! Then I can easily avoid soy, gluten, dairy, egg, etc and still have BREAD. Apparently the thing even does the dough mixing

I think it's all part of an under-handed scheme to wean me off of eating chocolate for breakfast.

 

[maryb]

V - let me know how you go on with this - been looking at bread makers for a while, the price of gluten free and the taste but I don't think I'm up to the baking and making for the oven.

 

[tatt]

For gluten free bread you really need a breadmaker, preferably a Panasonic (I've tried 2 machines and the SD255 was the best).

For anyone up to cooking the Pig in the kitchen website is a good resource http://www.piginthekitchen.co.uk/ although it's British so you may need to convert measurements

 

[maryb]

Had a look at the site tatt thanks - look like some good recipes - cancel my biscuit recipe above these look much better
I really wanted some recipes that I could use a breadmaker though so I probably wont try the bread ones.

 

[Valentijn]

The one my fiance picked out is a Panasonic SD-2501. It has a gluten-free setting, which sounds like it's somewhat essential if you need much automation (hit a button, let the machine do the thinking), since non-gluten flours behave very very differently in interacting with yeast and rising. It also has a "cake" setting for quick breads (the non-yeast ones with baking powder/soda instead). It even makes jams

It arrived today, and looks pretty groovy. Thick metal interior, very solid plastic exterior, metal mixing blades - should hold up well.

Regarding recipes, most good gluten free ones aren't designed with bread makers in mind. I found one book on amazon that has gluten free and vegan (no egg or dairy) and soy free bread recipes, which works well with my annoying number of food intolerances. So I might download that book ( http://www.amazon.com/Gluten-Free-Vegan-Bread-Artisanal-Recipes/dp/1570617805 ) and see how the recipes work in a bread maker. It's also got cake/quick-bread recipes

 

[Living Dead]

Dr Nancy Klimas made an almost throw-away comment during the 26 January INIM conference, that PWME should try a gluten-free diet for a few months to see if it helped and that tests for gluten sensitivity could give false negatives (I forget whether she said if only certain patients should try this such as people with GI issues - so don't just take my word for this!).

All test can cause false negatives. I don't believe this to be a particular problem with the gluten test. What is a particular problem, though, is that there are other substances (different types of lectins) in wheat and other grains that one can react negatively to in a manner similar to gluten intolerance. I think there's 8 such substances in wheat alone. There is no blood test available for these substances. So if one tests negative for coeliac's disease and benefits from not eating wheat, it's likely that it is something else in the wheat that can't be tolerated, not that the test taken was wrong.

 

[Gamboa]

Dr Frakenwheat is making the media rounds to sell his book. I heard his interview on 'Q' (a radio program on CBC Radio One) a few days ago. He made all kinds of breathless hysterical statements about how non-GMO wheat varieties have been modified by plant breeders "using techniques even more dangerous than GMO" into the most dangerous food that anyone could possibly eat. His rant was totally devoid of evidence or details. He didn't even tell us what sort of horrible techniques the plant breeders are using - too shocking for genteel radio listeners, apparently.

There seems to be a big anti-gluten fad right now in the U.S. ...zzzzzzzz...

Modern wheat is completely different from wheat a few generations ago. The first wheat eaten , Einkorn wheat, had 14 chromosomes. It was popular around 3000 BC. Then a wheat called emmer wheat came along, a natural combination of einkorn and a wild grass. It contained 28 chromosomes. Humans ate these wheats for thousands of years. Then in the last millenium a new wheat , a 42 chromosome type, emerged. By the 18th century there were 5 varieties of this new wheat due to human hybridization. In only the last 2 hundred years, thousands of new varieties of this 42 chromosome type of wheat have been developed. It is a completely different grain than the wheat humans ate for hundreds of thousands of years. Our bodies are not able to handle it. Modern wheat hybridization, like all other food product hybridization, is focused on getting the most crop from the smallest piece of land with the least amount of water used etc. One thing bred into some of the new varieties of wheat is a much higher amount of the protein gluten, a very bad molecule. By the way, Einkorn and Emmer wheats are still available and can be grown as well as studied so all of this stuff is scientifically proven.

The best book I can recommend is " The Wheat Belly" by Dr. William Davis. He is an American cardiologist and this book is excellent and explains why none of us should be eating wheat ( or should at least limit it). It has been on the best seller list for the last year here in Canada so I think a lot of people are taking notice.

 

[Gamboa]

Dr Klimas was talking about reducing inflammatory load - ME is a disease of inflammation of a lot of our systems, apparently, so it made sense to me that anything to bring it down was a good thing. I don't think she was implying that ME was misdiagnosed gluten intolerance.

Thanks for the info - how to know what's what, though? This seems to be an area of claim and counterclaim (as is often the case with dietary measures).

I think that was exactly what she was saying. Gluten is very bad for us ( read The Wheat Belly by Dr. William Davis) among many other books and you'll see that even if you seem to tolerate wheat, it could possibly be causing inflammation in your body which could be making ME/CFS symptoms worse.

I had antibody testing done and tested positive for anti-gliadin antibody ( anti-gliadin IgA) but negative for anti-tissue transglutaminase antibody (tTGA) so do not have Celiac Disease. The fact that I had a high anti-gliadin showed that I have a gluten sensitivity. Unfortunately, OHIP, the Ontario Provincial insurance system no longer tests anti-gliadin and just tests tTGA to rule out Celiac. I was lucky and found out I had a sensitivity to gluten whereas my husband who went a year later for testing couldn't get the anti-gliaden test done. I have a feeling that many place are doing this now since the tTGA test is a better way to diagnose Celiac Disease. Since stopping the other test, they are missing a lot of people who would show up as having a gluten sensitivity.

 

[Valentijn]

V - let me know how you go on with this - been looking at bread makers for a while, the price of gluten free and the taste but I don't think I'm up to the baking and making for the oven.

Some ingredients arrived today, so I did my first attempt of gluten-free bread making with a bread machine. I didn't have all the ingredients for the recipe I was using, so I substituted some stuff I did have. And then I realized the bread maker wants 500 grams of flours, so I randomly added more until it weighed 500 grams.

I had pre-mixed some Chia seeds with part of the water - apparently this helps give gluten-free bread a proper texture. After that had soaked 15 minutes, I poured the resulting Chia seed gel into the bread maker first with the rest of the water and syrup and oil. Then I added the flours, then the yeast. The book I have recommends mixing the yeast and water and maple syrup immediately, so I might try that next time to see if I get a little more rising action, since the very center collapsed a bit on top - a little too heavy maybe.

The texture turned out perfect It came out tasting like a pretty nice multi-grain bread. Smelled amazing while it was rising and cooking too

 

[maryb]

Oh you're nothing but a show-off

Can't have syrup - don't know about the chia seeds, but if you come across a pretty basic recipe let me know.
Did you buy GF bread flour or just different types of flour?

 

[Valentijn]

Oh you're nothing but a show-off

Can't have syrup - don't know about the chia seeds, but if you come across a pretty basic recipe let me know.
Did you buy GF bread flour or just different types of flour?

I've had bad results with bread mixes, so I (sort of) followed a recipe from a book. Syrup isn't too important as long as there's some form of real sugar for the yeast to munch on. I bought about 10 different types of flour, plus the chia seeds and xanthum, all online from a gluten-free specialty website. There's a foofoo foods stall at the local Thursday market, so I'll probably check that out for a few more options next week.

 

[xchocoholic]

Hi there,

Here are some recipes from the best GF foods I've ever eaten. And if you go down a page you'll see Mikes Famous breads. This bread will actually be moist and won't get crumbly for days ...

http://www.eastflceliac.com/recipesprint.htm

BTW, if you want to get an idea of how good gf foods can be, go to a celiac support group meeting in your area or eat at a gourmet vegan / gf restaurant ... tc ... x

 

[maryb]

The problem is they all seem to have sugar in drat

 

[Valentijn]

My second attempt at making bread was even better. My gluten-eating fiance even loves it As you can see, the texture is very nice - not dense:

It's upside down in this photo because the top collapsed a bit ... almost certainly from using a bit too much yeast.

There are 8 flours in it, all either 1/2 or 1/3 cup (3.5 cups flours total). Also chia seeds and xanthum gum, which help with texture and ability to rise properly without gluten. Here's a photo of the flours I've got so far - still missing four more:

 

[maryb]

Well............ I can't believe you're so organized, looks superb. Bread looks good too.
Glad your fiance enjoys it too what a bonus. Do you make it as you need it or make a batch and freeze, don't think I could rely on feeling up to making it often.
Mind you I'm no nearer to getting a bread maker or a gluten and whatever free recipe so I'm not worrying yet

 

[Valentijn]

Do you make it as you need it or make a batch and freeze, don't think I could rely on feeling up to making it often.

It's supposed to last a couple days, but the first batch was still very fresh and yummy after 2.5 days. I don't think I could eat it that fast alone (fiance has been helping a lot), but slicing and freezing some of it as soon as it cools off would probably work just fine.

 

[Dmitri]

I think a gluten free diet should be given a trial before full commitment, to see if it has any use. I spent over a year with no improvement. This way of eating actually harmed me more, if anything. I had to seek complicated recipes or products that tend to include questionable ingredients, instead of simple flour formulas of standard baked food. My IBS-D actually started during my (dragged out) experiment with gluten removal.

It is definitely worth an experiment. I could have used some of these recipes in the past...

 

[Sasha]

I think that was exactly what she was saying. Gluten is very bad for us ( read The Wheat Belly by Dr. William Davis) among many other books and you'll see that even if you seem to tolerate wheat, it could possibly be causing inflammation in your body which could be making ME/CFS symptoms worse.

Just been reading this and am going to try the suggestions he makes for my diet. He not only advises cutting out wheat (which has special problems not just related to gluten) but gluten and high-GI stuff, which includes the sort of special 'gluten-free' products that replace wheat with various forms of starch. Interesting. Worth a go for me, at least.