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Glutathione test results - GSH now normal !

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by globalpilot, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Hi Rich and all,

    I have run tests through Health Research 3 times.

    The first test was completed 6/14/2011 and the second on 12/5/2011 and the third on 2/22/2012.

    Treatments:
    methylB12 2.5 grams 12/09-6/11
    hydroxyB12 1 gram 7/11-third test
    folinic acid 12/09-8/10 800 mcg daily, 1/11-8/11 400mcg daily, 9/11-third test 800mcg every other day
    Milk thistle started 9/2011 no other changes in antioxidants between 1st and 2nd test
    Liposomal GSH 500mg 12/2011 no other changes in antioxidants between the 2nd and 3rd test

    My reduced glutathione has gone from below the normal range to well within normal. My oxidized has gone from above the normal range to within, but a bit on the high side still.

    I suspect a lot of this may be coming from my homemade liposomal glutathione but it is impossible to tell.
    The real test I think will be to do a urine isoprostane test again to see if I'm still overproducing free radicals.

    My CFS symptoms are only mildly better and the normal glutathione has not helped my bowel symptoms of extreme bloating at all.

    2/22/2012:
    plasma glutathone (oxidized) .43 (.16-.5)
    plasma glutathione (reduced) 4.9 (3.8-5.5)


    12/5/2011:
    plasma cysteine 17 umol/l (15-60)
    plasma glutathione (oxidized) .61 umol/l (.16-.5)
    plasma glutathione (reduced) 3.4 umol/l (3.8-5.5)
    nagalase 2.1 nmol/min/mg (.32-.95)
    RBC s-adenosylmethionine 312 umol/dl (221-256)
    RBC s-adenosylhomocysteine 51.6 umol/dl (38-49)

    5-ch3-thf 12 nmol/l (8.4-72.6)
    10-formyl-thf 2.9 nmol (1.5-8.2)
    5-formyl-thf 3.7 nmol/l (1.2-11.7)
    thf .64 nmol/l (.6-6.8)
    folic acid 15.6 nmol/l (8.9-24.6)
    WBC folinic acid 14 nmol/l (9-35.5)
    RBC folic acid 336 nmol/l (400-1500)

    urine FIGLU 3.7 mg/24 hour (0-3)
    adenosine 24.6 10^.8 M (16.8-21.4)


    6/14/2011:
    glutathione oxidized 0.5 .16-.5 umol/l 0.61
    glutathione reduced 3.9 3.8-5.5 umol/l 3.4
    nagalase 1 .32-.95 nmol/min/mg 2.1
    SAM 238 221-256 umol/dl 312
    SAH 48.9 38-49 umol/dl 51.6
    5-ch3-thf 15.4 .4-72.6 nmol/l 12
    10-formyl-thf 1.3 1.5-8.2 nmol/l 2
    5-formyl-thf 1.8 1.2-11.7 nmol/l 3.7
    thf .88 .6-6.8 nmol/l 0.64
    folic acid 19.4 8.9-24.6 nmol/l 15.6
    folinic acid wbc 15.2 9-35.5 nmol/l 14
    folic acid rbc 384 400-1500 Nmoll 336
    adenosine 20.7 16.8-21.4 24.6
     
  2. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    "Bowel symptoms" rings a bell. My problems are always related to the gut and properly addressing the gut issues always solves the problems. As such, my recommendation is to focus your attention and resources on the gut. A test such as Metametrix GI Effects Complete Profile might be of pertinence in your case.
     
  3. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Done. I did that test 2 weeks ago. Waiting for results.

     
  4. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Awesome. Looking forward to your poop results! :)

    After a couple of good years, I also got bloating again in early January. After an upper endoscopy and colonoscopy, I finally decided to do the GI Effects. Metametrix got my poop just this morning. I will share my poop results too!
     
  5. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Excellent! I do have a concern though. If the issue is in the small bowel , does this test necessarily pick it up ? For example, you may have normal levels of bacteriodides overall but an overgrowth in the small bowel large enough to cause a problem but not large enough to show as "high". I don't think you need much of an overgrowth in the small bowel for it to cause a problem. I'm not sure how to test this more precisely.


     
  6. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine is difficult to diagnose. Even lactulose breath tests aren't all that reliable. Unfortunately, this test won't help you either. Going the empirical route, such as taking a ton of Xifaxan and see if it helps, might be the only way.
     
  7. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, globalpilot.

    I'm happy to see that your reduced glutathione has come up. As you noted, your oxidized glutathione is still a little high, indicating that there is still a process going on that is producing oxidative stress. Given your gut-related symptoms, it seems likely that the oxidative stress is due to the immune system responding to an intestinal infection. I know that you had a positive test for enterovirus, and the Metametrix G.I. Function panel may show something as well.

    Your results are another piece of evidence that we must do more than restore the methylation cycle and glutathione in most cases of ME/CFS. We have to identify and deal with what led to glutathione depletion and the partial methylation cycle block in the first place.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  8. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    I did try the xifixan too Nanonug. No results whatsoever. THe bowel issues for me have been the most frustrating aspect. Is it pancreatic deficiency ? Motility issue ? HCL deficiency ? Etc. It is very hard to get this narrowed down. And even if it is, how to fix it ?



     
  9. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Thanks Rich. I posted above about my frustrations about getting to the root of the digestive disorders. I have ideas about what should be examined but havn't been able to get anyone to investigate yet. I really think we need to get some good gastroenterolgoists willing to investigate these issues onboard.

     
  10. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    If that's the case, I think you can be pretty confident in not having SIBO.

    I know, believe me!

    If the problem is non-viral, there is a good chance the GI Effects will catch it. Or at least provide some kind of clue.

    Well, let's wait for the results. One problem at a time, please! :)
     
  11. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Oh, I was just expressing my frustrations after years of studying and not having answers as to root causes. I'm not sure I agreee with you though that if the problem is non-viral the GI effects will catch it. It tests for SOME bad actors, good bacteria, SCFA, elastase I think. It does not test for things like motility, enzyme gene expression. What I am looking for is to see if some bad actors pop up and/or I show as significantly low in some of the good. That's all I am expecting of this test.
    As far as teh SIBO I have expected the problem to be a carbon dioxide producing microbe which includes the yeasts as well as s ome bacteria. I *think* salmonella is one of them.


     
  12. bigdreams87

    bigdreams87

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    any updates? curious to see
     
  13. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    I do. i just got my metametrix results tonight. I'm out of town tomorrow but will post Thursday. But in a nutshell:

    -> generally low good bacteria
    -> no pathogenic or opportunistic bacteria
    -> yeast and parasite taxonomy unknown
    -> very low secretoary IgA ... this seems very important
    -> my pancreatic elastase was normal ... implies pancreatic output is ok (good!)
    -> elevated putrefactive SCFAs
     
  14. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

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    parasites can produce carbon monoxide too.

    IS this the first metametrix you've had done? Has your fecal elastase always been normal? Mine was very low at one stage. Also, has PPTU always shown up on each test?

    hixxy
     
  15. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

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    There is a wide range of bacteria rifaximin is not active against. Constipation / methane producing bacteria in particular. Not to mention Strep is often resistant to it. Patients shoudn't even be prescribed rifaximin in constipation predominant IBS/SIBO.
     
  16. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Will be anxiously waiting too.

    How long did it take to get your results? Metametrix received my poop on Apr 18th...

    Thanks for sharing!
     
  17. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

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    Last time I did metametrix it only took about 3 weeks for results (and that's from Australia). I think it can vary thought.

    hixxy
     
  18. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Hmm, wasn't aware of that! Do you know what works for the methane producing bugs?
     
  19. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    By the way, I assume you know Metametrix has an GI Effects Interpretive Guide...
     
  20. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

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    Neomycin is great with methane producers.

    Neomycin combined with erythromycin is a nice combination for SIBO. This combo also leaves bacteroides intact. While rifiaximin annihilates bacteroides.

    It's not active against clostridium though, so you must be careful. Maybe take saccharomyces boulardii to try prevent clositridium overgrowth.

    hixxy
     

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