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Glutathione, raw food and rest

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Sasha, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Fifteen years ago, I had rapid improvement (within a few weeks) after several years of being bedbound, when I did several interventions at once, none involving any supplements. I can only remember two: starting an all-raw-food diet, and lying down resting until I didn't feel tired before and after any activity (three or four hours at a stretch, if necessary). This was the beginning of a ten-year remission and I'm wondering whether either of these things makes sense in terms of glutathione.

    I've just watched Rich's excellent talk in Sweden in which he says (if memory serves) that some ME specialists had success with some PWME supplementing glutathione, but only as long as the supplementation continued. He also said that at the beginning of the SMP, glutathione may go down before it starts to come up and while that is happening, it may help to supplement with glutathione.

    I googled a bit on raw food and glutathione and found this abstract (my bold):


    Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1992;43(6):667-9.
    The systemic availability of oral glutathione.
    Witschi A, Reddy S, Stofer B, Lauterburg BH.
    Source

    Department of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Bern, Switzerland.

    When the plasma glutathione concentration is low, such as in patients with HIV infection, alcoholics, and patients with cirrhosis, increasing the availability of circulating glutathione by oral administration might be of therapeutic benefit. To assess the feasibility of supplementing oral glutathione we have determined the systemic availability of glutathione in 7 healthy volunteers. The basal concentrations of glutathione, cysteine, and glutamate in plasma were 6.2, 8.3, and 54 mumol.l-1 respectively. During the 270 min after the administration of glutathione in a dose of 0.15 mmol.kg-1 the concentrations of glutathione, cysteine, and glutamate in plasma did not increase significantly, suggesting that the systemic availability of glutathione is negligible in man. Because of hydrolysis of glutathione by intestinal and hepatic gamma-glutamyltransferase, dietary glutathione is not a major determinant of circulating glutathione, and it is not possible to increase circulating glutathione to a clinically beneficial extent by the oral administration of a single dose of 3 g of glutathione.​


    Oddly enough, on the (commercial) NutritionAdvisor site where I found this, it says:


    Dietary forms of glutathione are efficiently absorbed into the blood, however the same is not true for glutathione supplements in humans.​


    That page goes on to explain that glutathione in food is largely destroyed by cooking, and lists the cooked and raw glutathione content of some fruits and vegetables. There's a more extensive analysis of foods in this 1989 paper, which says that some glutathione does make it through the digestive system but it's unknown how much is aborbed.

    I've just picked out a couple of papers from a swift google and they're over 20 years old, so they could be unrepresentative.

    But, my questions:

    *Is it worth eating lots of raw fruits and vegetables in an attempt to supplement glutathione, even if it's just to tide the body over the start of the SMP?

    *Is it worth eating raw fruits and vegetables to get a glutathione boost anyway, even if it's not resolving the block in the methylation cycle?

    *Is there a folic acid issue with green vegetables (I think Fred warned about this)?

    *Does supplementation with glutathione really not raise levels in the body? If not, why were the ME clinicians having some temporary success with it?

    *Presumably resting a lot means that glutathione isn't being used up as quickly and is putting less strain on a body with a methylation block. In theory, could you rest enough for the methylation block to fix itself, even without the SMP? Or at the very least, would a lot of rest be expected to help the SMP be a success?
  2. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Oral Glutathione supplements don't get past the digestive tract into the blood, but it can be supplemented in other ways. It can be mixed with water and nebulized, and I think it is absorbed sublingually. NAC is another way to raise levels in the body. Here is Rich's info on glutathione http://aboutmecfs.org.violet.arvixe.com/Trt/TrtGlutathioneBuild.aspx

    Green vegetables don't contain folic acid as such, but do contain folates.
  3. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    I eat a variety of foods. Meats, veggies and fruit. Cooked and not. It is all very imporant. I use Life Extentions whey proteing also. I take Liposomal glutathione with great results. I take a really great timed release alpha lipoic acid and NAC. There are many ways to get it. It is so important.

    My Liposomal GSH is by livonlabs. I get my glutathione and vit C that way.
  4. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks Sasha for starting this thread. im in the middle of watching Rich's talk and it really is great and finally making sense!
    I spoke to Dr Myhill about Glutathione a number of times as my blood levels are very low (from her mito test) as well as carnitine co q 10 etc just as Rich showed omn his slides would happen with a MCB. However Dr M reccommends taking Glutathione supplement and i bought som eages ago but havent tried it yet -seems it may be pointless. I also asked her recently and she said to self inject with methyl b12 and that this would help with methylation. I am going to try these interventions because they seem worth a try but i cant help but feel i need to go for the full protocol but dont really want to without a Drs help asi can be so sensitive.

    I still dont understand the whole folate problem thing.But maybe i'll finally get there soon -after all it's only taken me about a year and a quarter to understand this far (lol)

    BTW i think we have been reading the same google pages the last couple of days, i came across similar info. maybe we should try the liposomal glutathione, this feels safer for me as some of the other precursers mentioned can have side effects wheareas glutathione doesn't have any.
  5. harrycat

    harrycat

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    I take the liposomal glutathione I've taken about 20 sachets so far and I have to say I don't notice any effects good or bad from them. My glutathione is low so was hoping for better response:(
  6. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    I tried glutatione, sublingually for at least three months. Then stopped. A short time after that I had a remarkable improvement which lasted for at least 8 months. I put the improvement down to other supplements I was taking at the time but have been unable to replicate it. I now wonder whether it was due to the glutathione and that any improvement was delayed, for blocks to clear etc. Has anyone else experienced this?
  7. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    IN my experience:
    * yes, as long as you wash everything carefully or sooner or later you're bound to pick up some unhelpful microbes. As far as I know, GSH is absorbed very well from food sources.
    * yes, raw fruit and veg have nutritional benefits beyond the mere GSH thing. I read however, that minerals are best absorbed from well cooked vegetables.
    * I'm ignorant about greens vs. folic acid issues
    * No. I tried supplementing in various forms, including IV and it did not make a difference.
    * When you're in the process of resolving the underlying causes, resting, pacing etc don't make much of an impact. On the contrary, gradually and carefully raising activity levels may be more beneficial.
    All the best
  8. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Xrunner, i'm not sure what you mean by this. I am one of those who seems to be worse if i rest too much and need to keep up a certain amount of activity. On the other hand if i raise my activity levels slightly too mcuh i will eventually crash very badly -that is where i am at now have lost a whole years worth of gains so am back to resting most of the time and only going out briefly about once a week. Unfortunately it seems impossible to gauge what the optimum amount of activity is for me in the long run.
    Could you clarify what you meant for me?

    Sasha -it's interesting that you had a ten year remmission as i had a remission for ten years as well. This time around i am much sicker than the first time and i have been wracking my brain strying to work out what i did then and wether i can replicate it. I suspect not as i was able to exercise and go out then which i can't do now.
  9. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    I take lots of NAC and Selenium ( selenate not selenite ) everyday. Lots of it sometimes when I am feeling ill up to 5-6 grams of it. At one point I took SAMe took thinking that it would help my GSH pathway. I know not everybody responds to NAC but for those that do it really does make a difference. That and black pepper has helped me visibly when it comes to length of time I am feeling down and infections.

    NAC is supposed to be the rate limiting amino acid in the formation of Gluthatione and Selenium works on its enzyme. I find it very cost effective and much cheaper than buying Gluthatione itself.
  10. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I find selenium has helped me as well to feel a bit more functional, i hadnt realised how related it was to glutathione and seeing as my glutathione levels are so low its no wonder the selenium has helped. Of course its very importnat not to take too much selenium as its toxic and you can overdose.
    Justy x
  11. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Hi Justy,
    I meant that when I was unwell, resting was key at preserving or maintaining my health state kind of stable. And like Sasha I had a "spontaneous" recovery just by extreme rest. Coincidentally I was at the time on a raw food diet. I remember spending a week deliberately lying down most of the day whilst resisting impulses to get up and move about. A few weeks later I started to feel better and improve. But for unknown reasons it didn't last and started to get back to square one.

    However, when I started to get better i.e. addressing the underlying causes of my illness, the fact that I was either resting or overdoing a bit wasn't making much of a difference on my progress. Obviously extreme activity in any phase of the illness doesn't help. However, in the latter phase, I found moderate exercise with weights very helpful in promoting a sense of well being, despite not being at all back to normal levels.
    In other words, exercising and its post-effects are probably the best indicators of actual healing. My personal experience is that if moderate exercise makes you worse, it means you're ill and should rest. If it helps, you're most likely on the right healing path.
    All the best.
  12. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Thanks all - I've been having trouble with my internet connection for the last couple of days and so all these excellent replies have mounted up and now there are too many for me to respond to individually (sorry! very tired!) but they're all very interesting. It's interesting what varied experiences people have with glutathione supplementation, among other things - maybe this is something else where polymorphisms play a part.

    I'm hoping Rich might comment on what in principle might be expected from raw food and rest in terms of glutathione and the SMP, if he comes this way!

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