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Glutamine possibly wreaking havoc and dealing with leaky gut

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Misfit Toy, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    I Have had the worst year. I am two hours away from home supposedly on vacation. I can't leave the house I'm so sick. I started taking glutamine the day before yesterday. My stomach is an absolute mess, I am also so anxious and I just feel so sick. I have leaky gut really bad, along with just being diagnosed a few days ago with celiac disease. I'm trying to heal the inflammation and the lining in my gut.

    The glutamine seems to making it worse. Plus, I can't sleep, I'm anxious and I wake up in the middle of the night in a pool of soaking sweat. I have been trying Yasko's protocol, this is doing what she is worried about. Racey, heart flying, etc. My stomach is a mess! Worse on glutamine. Nausea and having to take Tagamet, which is doing nothing.

    I am concerned for two reasons; I need to help my stomach as it is causing I would say 95% of my symptoms. Also, I'm trying to do the methylation protocol and I'm not able to really do it because I'm just too sick.

    I feel like I am in hell and this is the 2 nd vacation I've had this year, where I can't even leave the place I am staying. On the beach. Can't even get to the beach. Feel like I am losing it.

    I have NO direction from doctor. I am so upset over this. I am on my own. I have horrible visions that this illness is going to kill me. Maybe that's a sign. I need help with stomach, but don't know how. I feel hopeless.
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Glutamine can turn into glutamate, which can cause a lot of problems. Might be best to avoid it if it's messing you up so much :(
    A.B. likes this.
  3. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Misfit Toy, Waverunner and Valentijn like this.
  4. MeSci

    MeSci Activity level: 6

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    I'm sorry you're having such a bad time. Are you sure it's the glutamine causing the problems? You say you are away from home - when and how did you travel? I find that exertion gives me - or used to give me - bad gut and all the other PEM symptoms (including trouble sleeping) 2 days later.
  5. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    How much are you taking? I can only tolerate half a teaspoon twice a day. If you can't take it at all you need to take aloe vera about 50ml before meals and have homemade organic bone broth with every meal. Check out The GAPS diet to learn more.

    I am currently doing bone broth again - I make a big batch once a week.
  6. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    MeSci, I came home due to being so sick. Just got in. I messed up my knee, so my whole left side of my leg, sciatica etc is acting up. I have to see an orthopedist. I can barely walk. My knee is wrapped up. This happened before leaving . Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. I got down there to 97 degree weather and I couldn't be in the house because the AC didn't kick in for 7 hours. Central air. I had to leave the house and walk around a grocery store. Then eat. Came back, it was still TOO hot. Then, the TV didn't work unless you got up and changed the channels manually. It was a 2 hour drive. WE are in a major heat wave and that's when my vacation was booked for. No one is really leaving their house. Again, I feel cursed by this. Also, in the middle of the night last night....something in the house is beeping and it's a fire thing on the ceiling that I can't reach because there are cathedral ceilings. I was alone, by myself. Am I crazy? I feel like I am crazy and maybe I am just making a mountain out of a molehill. I was so stressed. I need something to go right. Nothing is going right at all. I feel like I just need to stay in and never go out, drive, or whatever for fear that something will go awry. When I think of a vacation, I think of things going right.....not wrong. Like having Central air that's on when you get there, having a TV that works without having to get up and not having a fire thing beeping like no tomorrow at 4 am until today when I left.

    I never have good news anymore. When people call, I have nothing good to say.

    Aside from the glutamine, the Sam-e that I started taking and then stopped; Another thing, my friend was supposed to go down with me, broke her foot and had a concussion and couldn't go. I get down there, the AC is broken. Then, the TV is messed up. I became so stressed and sick. Plus, carrying everything from my car into the house.

    I was taking diflucan, Sam-e and the glutamine all at once. Then aloe because I am so backed up.

    Plum, I made soup and bought the books for GAPS, but I can't do it. It's too much work, I am too sick and I can't ferment things. I have no space. I live in a tiny apartment. I also get sick of bone broth constantly. It's like eating the same thing over and over again makes me want to vomit. Also, Plum, aloe vera juice causes me to have horrible gas. Like, don't come around me gas. ITs awful.

    I can tell you this, I didn't take anything today and even though I am wickedly depressed, I am not feeling like yesterday or the day before. I felt NUTS yesterday and like I was so weak and revved up all at once. I couldn't breath right. My mind wouldn't shut up. That was after 2 days of glutamine. Plus, I kept having diarreah. Or however you spell that awful word.

    I am a mess. I am SO EAGER to heal my gut that I feel like it has become an obsession and like I am paranoid. I feel without the glutamine, it's hopeless on healing the gut. I have not been successful at it thus far. Not with the rotation diet, not with elimination or probiotics or kefir. I can basically have water. That doesn't hurt me.
  7. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    Isn't retinoc acid for acne and isn't that not good for you? That's what I have read. Maybe it's not the same thing.
  8. MeSci

    MeSci Activity level: 6

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    I can really sympathise about the stress of living in a small apartment, and understand why you feel the need to get away.

    But exertion, especially in this heat, is sure to exacerbate symptoms and make it harder for treatment regimes to do their stuff. I am going to have to cancel going to a social event next Saturday if it's still hot, as I won't even be able to cope with being in a car driven by someone else, even for less than an hour. A two-hour journey would flatten me for the rest of the day at least, and maybe more.

    It's all creating a vicious cycle for you, with things going wrong and then causing you stress, which also exacerbates symptoms.

    Is it possible to get someone else to drive you somewhere, and travel in the evening or early morning to avoid the heat?

    I don't know what other people's experiences of this are (I don't have candida), but I wonder whether a palaeo diet plus supplements plus avoiding stress and exertion could fix any candida problems so that you could avoid the diflucan, as that can have side-effects - see here:

    http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/1458/SPC/Diflucan 150 Capsules/#UNDESIRABLE_EFFECTS

    For constipation I have found the herb feverfew to be effective within hours, and no adverse effects. There's some stuff about it here:

    http://www.drugs.com/npc/feverfew.html

    I have found that the diet and supplements have fixed my loose bowels, but when I have needed to alleviate it on a short-term basis I have used kaolin and morphine - not sure that is available in the USA (if that's where you are).

    I hope that you feel better very soon.
    Misfit Toy likes this.
  9. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    It's possible I made a mistake and made my post less specific. I can't look up the exact form at the moment. In any case, you want the form of vitamin A normally found in food, not the precursors (betacarotenoids) and no funny synthetic forms.
    Misfit Toy likes this.
  10. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    I only suggested GAPS due the bone broth info. In no way do I think fermenting is a good use of time! I don't manage to do it and I spend all of my time and energy on food for myself.

    I agree bone broth can get boring. I put different fresh herbs in it so it tastes different.

    If the aloe vera is causing problems are there any additives in it? There's no reason why aloe vera should cause you any problems - it's very soothing. I did notice recently when looking on iHerb that all the aloe vera available seems to have nasty additives and preservatives. There's one in the UK from Pukka which has only aloe and citric acid in it - it's very good stuff.

    I don't know of any other way to heal the gut apart from glutamine, bone broth and aloe.
  11. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    Hi Plum, I have been using George's which has no additives or preservatives. How much do you take again? I open the lid and literally drink it down. Not too much, but just a swig. I am also on Aloe Vera pills for constipation, but they don't help heal the gut. Some people I see here are on Zinc. I really need to look into this.

    I will probably try the glutamine again, although I am scared. I am trying to add in these methylation supplements and I become overwhelmed over what is causing what.

    That's how I feel in general. Overwhelmed.
  12. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    Yes, I know the side effects of diflucan. Well. I may look into the Paleo diet. I surely can't follow the GAPS diet. I love soup and bone broth, but not every day several times a day.

    I have had candida since I got sick. I think I had it when I was a child too. I have low iGa..immunoglobulins.

    And, I agree about the heat. I was supposed to originally go with another person, but she got sick. She too has CFS and she became too ill to go.

    What mixes everything up, is I went to the ER last night because of my leg and calf killing. I have to go back today, as they are going to call someone in to do an ultrasound to see if I have a blood clot. I have had one before and they think I may have one again. I can't believe this. I am so tired. I can't get a break. I live alone, so I will be driving myself. I just want to stay in bed.
    MeSci, you have that you use morphine for stools. Is that like morphine the opiate?
  13. MeSci

    MeSci Activity level: 6

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    It's a standard traditional diarrhoea treatment in the UK called kaolin and morphine, and yes, it contains a small amount of morphine. Maybe you can't get it where you are.

    Zinc might be worth trying. I noticed that you read the thread about the research which found that a leaky gut diet and supplements improved ME symptoms. Maybe worth having another look? The paper is here:

    http://integrativehealthconnection....1/Leaky-gut-in-CFS-treatment-of-leaky-gut.pdf

    This diet included zinc. It seems that different patients took different supplements. Glutamine is mentioned, which suits me well, and also N-acetylcysteine, which I didn't feel suited me so I stopped taking it. Different things suit different people. The leaky gut and palaeo diet are very similar. Reducing grains and sugar helped me a lot.
    Misfit Toy likes this.
  14. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    Thanks MeSci, I am going to try the glutamine again, but not really wanting to. If it possibly revs you up and causes anxiety, I do not need that as I am already wired and too sick. I honestly think now that I should have never bought it. It's so expensive.

    I honestly wish you didn't have to buy an entire bottle of a supplement but they just sold a trial of it. I could buy a house with all of the supplements I bought that don't work.
  15. MeSci

    MeSci Activity level: 6

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    It definitely doesn't do that for me. I am much calmer than before I started the diet and supplements. But it may not suit everyone, and it may depend on what you eat. This page

    http://umm.edu/health/medical-refer...ternative-medicine-guide/supplement/glutamine

    has some useful info including dietary sources of glutamine.

    I'm not sure about whether taking glutamine can increase glutamate. Maybe in some people? I know that one converts to the other and back again. Glutamate can certainly make you feel wired, but the 'tired but wired' feeling is also a common aspect of PEM, and you have clearly pushed yourself rather hard over the past few days, as well as getting stressed - it all contributes.
  16. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    If you feel that bad, why take more of it? Your body is telling you something. Find something else that works for you instead, would be my advice. DGL, NT-factor, gamma oryzanol, saccharomyces boulardii, chamomile, zinc carnosine, are a few things that come to mind that might be worth trying. (Don't take gamma oryzanol if you have thyroid issues or esp. hypothyroidism.)
  17. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    jeffrez, because I have tried chamomile which doesn't heal the gut. It doesn't heal the villa. I have low iGa. I have no villa in my intestine. I agree with you about not wanting to take it, but I have tried s boulardii. NT factor a long time ago. Everything you mentioned like carnosine, can't that mess you up to? It seems like NAC or carnisine....everyone on here says if you take something it can affect another amino acid.

    I will be honest with you, I am struggling so much. I feel nuts. I can't keep up with all that I have going wrong and on. I break out into tears out of nowhere. I am so sensitive to so much. I am thinking of euthanasia in Oregon right now.

    I can't even take an antidepressant. I can't take so many things. The more I study, the more confused and overwhelmed I get.

    I need to do something, but I don't know what. I just want an end.

    You will probably read this and think I am nuts. But with all that I have going on, who wouldn't be.

    I have IC....do the low oxolate diet Iam told. For the stomach, do the GAPS diet. For yeast, do the Paleo diet. WTF? Does anyone see how upsetting and overwhelming this is. I am so over it.

    Maybe I need to stop trying to figure it out, walk away from learning about it anymore and say who gives a crap.
  18. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    zinc carnosine isn't the same as plain carnosine. The molecules are bound together to produce a substance with different properties. Chamomile doesn't heal the gut, but it can help reduce the stress. Calendula is another one you can try, that one has direct GI effects, I think. I've taken it before for ulcer and it helped.
    Misfit Toy likes this.
  19. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    Hi

    I had to come off methylation supplements. One thing I have learnt with this illness is one thing at a time and take it slowly. Methylation is a tough issue to deal with and the supplements need to be carefully adjusted. If it were me I'd concentrate on healing your gut 1st.

    I take 50ml aloe vera.

    I recently found out that the capsules that some supplements come in affects my gut. Small things we never think of can have big affects on us - it's amazing!

    I have recently had a gut flare up so am doing some healing myself. The only other significant thing I have energy for right now is trying to eat as well as I can!
    MeSci and Misfit Toy like this.
  20. MeSci

    MeSci Activity level: 6

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    Hang on in there, Misfit Toy. I have been where you are and I did attempt suicide. When I woke up 24 hours later I was dismayed that it didn't work, but after a few weeks I found my will to live again and was glad that it hadn't. Once it's done it's final and you can't change your mind - I know that's obvious but thought I'd say it anyway.

    Plum is so right - take it slowly. The gut healing can take weeks, months, even longer, but when it works, the improvement is gradual and if you keep a health diary you will see how things have improved, and everything feels less burdensome and more bearable. We need to take EVERYTHING slowly. An analogy many use is that we have the mind of a hare but the body of a tortoise, and we have to constantly tell the racing harebrain to shut up and let us go at a tortoise pace. If you know the fable of the tortoise and the hare you will know that the tortoise won the race!

    Re oxalates, even if you have kidney stones you don't have to avoid a wide range of foods. This paper:
    http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/1/117.full

    says “Only spinach and rhubarb are considered to be high risk food items, for their high amounts of bioavailable oxalate. Peanuts, instant tea, almonds, chocolate and pecans are considered as moderate risk food items.”

    I would interpret that as meaning that you can have small amounts of all but spinach and rhubarb.
    Misfit Toy and Plum like this.

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