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GI Biofilm/ infection/heavy metals

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by albellenfant, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. albellenfant

    albellenfant

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    http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com...-Biofilms-and-Fibrinolytic-Enzymes-sp-90.html

    This is great information about the relationship between biofilms in the gut and how they harbor infection/fungi/heavy metals. They render anibiotics/antifungals/chelators useless until the biofims are penetrated by enzyms amd EDTA/chelators. I have always thought there is a strong link between autism and me/cfs. It explains GI problems, hypercoagulation,and other issues facing me/cfs patients. I hope CFS doctors will consider this protocol along with the methylation pathway block Rich has worked on so hard.
     
    sianrecovery likes this.
  2. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    Hmmm, I replied and my response didn't show up.

    I think this is very important too albellenfant. I did a round of this in the spring with digestive enzymes/serrapeptidase but no EDTA.

    WOuld there be a risk of depleting minerals from the body when using EDTA ?
     
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Biofilms and Enzymatic Therapy

    Hi Albellanfant,

    Thanks much for posting the link to this really good interview. I've been getting ready to start some enzyme therapy and now see how important it will be to adequately detoxify during this process. My access to some local far intrared sauna therapy should be especially valuable.

    Welcome to the forum.

    Regards, Wayne
     
  4. albellenfant

    albellenfant

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    Yes at some poimt you will need to replace those minerals. You can usually find an alternative medicine doctor that offers IV replacements for certain vitamins and minerals to make certain they are retained since most peoples GI systems are not functioning propely.
     
  5. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    albellenfant,

    Very interesting. Thank you. I wonder if biofilm is what I got out of my colon during a colon cleanse.
     
  6. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    colon cleanse - biofilm

    maybe ... what did you get out if you dont mind me asking ... which cleanse did you do ?

    A friend got sometihng very strange out during a 7 day juice fast and it was the turning point in his recovery ... he is now 100%.
     
  7. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    suzy,
    I used one of those colon cleanse products you find in health food stores together with extra psylium husk. If you google image colon cleanse you can see what I discharged. It did not help me at all. It was a few years ago and I have got worse ever since.
     
  8. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    I'm sorry to hear that Sara. Maybe it depleted some of your nutrients ??? I did try this a year and a bit ago and I got a lot worse b/c it depleted my already low nutrients. I since have spent over a year rebuilding. I think I could handle it better now.
     
  9. albellenfant

    albellenfant

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    Wane I think the chelator is an important part of weakening the protective biofim. Most documents support the use of EDTA capsules. I have also seen other possible products being tried are OSR, lactoferrin, and metal magnet. If you use these be ready to use charcoal ,ExTox, or some product to mop up the toxins/metals being released.
     
  10. albellenfant

    albellenfant

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  11. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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  12. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    I'm interested in this gut biofilm thing, it makes sense to me, but I confess I haven't the brainpower to pursue it tonight.

    I did try EDTA early on in this illness, before I knew what it was. (By the way, the brand I bought also had a companion product with replacement minerals.) Why is it better than other chelators? And is there a special protocol for taking it? If these things are answered in the video I haven't yet gotten to, just tell me that, but I'm curious.

    I'm also curious because I know someone with neuropathies (which of course are a mystery to the neurologists) and suggested that heavy metal poisoning or other toxins might be the cause. Does EDTA chelate stuff other than heavy metals? Do other chelators?

    I realize no one on this thread may have the answers, but you all sound more knowledgeable than I am on the topic.
     
  13. Athene

    Athene ihateticks.me

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    Link to the Usman protocol:-
    http://www.autismpedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Protocols/Usman

    This is the biofilm-breaking enzyme product developed by Usman:-
    http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/ViewProductDetails@Product_ID@397@Product_Group_ID@1.aspx

    I think EDTA is preferred as it is particularly good at catching lead, which seems to be one of the commonest minerals in this biofilm. It is poorly absorbed from the gut so it will do most of its work there which, in this situation, is the desired effect I think. However I have read that chlorella is also sometimes recommended as an alternative.
     
    sianrecovery likes this.
  14. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Good info!

    Thank you Athene! :Retro smile:
     
  15. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I am taking microsilica as a chelator. I wonder how that does with biofilms? It is new (Klinghardt is using it) and there is not much written about it yet.

    Sushi
     
  16. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    I thought the enzymes were to break the biofilms and the chelators to pull the metals, plus (of course) some agent to tackle the relaesed bacteria. Finally something to mop up the mess - charcoal...or similar/better?
    It seems a good protocol (in theory) to minimize any risk of nasties being recycled or redistributed.

    I've been working on gut issues for years, and really feel other protocols have been limited in their success due to some extremely stubborn issues in the gut that I haven't been able to resolve. I'm really keen to learn more.

    I want to start some methylation support but feel I need to have other things well in place first. Looks like more reading for me!:sofa:
     
  17. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    Methylation is what may be missing in your gut protocol. There's a tiny bit of discussion I was involved with here, and there are also many more reports on this if you wade through the thread, which I admit is intimidating as it is 100 pages long.

    I'll just repeat what I've heard, and my own experience, here. Many people believe that gut issues are "downstream" from methylation, that is, that it's the methylation going wrong which created the gut problems in the first place. velha pointed out that, even if you believe the gut issues are primary, most people with CFS don't have it in them to heal gut entirely unless they take care of the methylation issues first.

    On my own experience, I'm inclined to go for the first theory. I've been doing Freddd's active B12 protocol for about 3 months, now, and I haven't been paying special attention to the gut. I'll be honest: I've been eating a lot of crap, since it honestly didn't seem to make any difference; I was almost always nauseated and didnt' absorb my food anyway.

    I went through about six weeks to two months of having my already-insistent nausea turn constant; B12 protocol often seems to work by making your symptoms worse for a while. When I got through this, my nausea was drastically reduced (frequency and intensity), my elimination (used to swing from diarrhea to constipation, sorrry if TMI) is now easy and normalized, and after a year of not being able to gain weight no matter what or how I ate, I am gaining weight again.

    I definitely want to investigate the information here; I think it would be vital not only for myself but for general health knowledge. However, I think for CFS folk it may be really hard to get to the bottom (so to speak) of gut problems without getting methylation going.

    I'm leaning toward methylation as being the bottom line for everything CFS, actually. But that doesn't mean we don't need other protocols.
     
    Adlyfrost likes this.
  18. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Sunday.

    You might be interested to know that Dr. Kunin told me that he thinks that normal pancreatic digestive enzymes are capable of breaking down biofilm. As I posted on another thread, he also enlightened me to the fact that the secretion of digestive enzymes by the pancreas is dependent on methylation. Putting these two together would say that the methylation problem is what allows the biofilms to form, and it suggests that if methylation is fixed, maybe the biofilms will be broken down, perhaps restoring good gut function. I realize that I have made some leaps in logic here, but please just consider this an unproven hypothesis!

    Rich
     
    Adlyfrost likes this.
  19. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    This development regarding methylation/gut issues-biofilm is very interesting. I think I am one of the really bad gut cases with symptoms that just won't let up. I take HCL, pancreatic (not enteric coated) enzymes, watch my diet and this helps very minimally. Pancreas is definitely involved as I have slightly high blood amylase, low pancreatic enzyme output on CDSA and elevated fat output on CDSA.

    However, my creatininine tests normal.

    Rich, are you fidning that most PWCS have abnormal creatinine indicinating poor methylation ? Or is it possible to have normal creatinine with abnormal methylation ?
     
  20. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    Rich, that's very interesting about the pancreatic digestive enzyme/biolfilm/methylation connection, and it makes sense. I'm game for testing your logical leap! Of course we don't know if restoring methylation willl eliminate biofilms on its own, but for me even partial restoration of methylation is eliminating a lot of symptoms. It certainly seems possible this might be one of them.
     

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