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Getting to the Root of the issue - Dorsal Root Ganglionitis

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Firestormm, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Slightly off topic - have also seen a McTimony Chiro with some good improvements shown (although still not recovered)
    Justy x
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  2. SunnyInside

    SunnyInside

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    Nice one Justy, well done. Some Improvements are great. (I think recovery is a long way off, and better quality of life is so important.

    What area's did your chiro/mctimony work on? Did/do you have the strange flooding/trickling feeling from your spine spreading out across your back and round your ribs before you went for the treatment(s)?

    SunnyInside
  3. In Vitro Infidelium

    In Vitro Infidelium Guest

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    The reports of DRG have frequently been confused with claims of evidence that supports M.E > E = encephalomyelitis. The dorsal root ganglions lie outside of the spine - http://virtual.yosemite.cc.ca.us/rdroual/images/Anatomy/spinal cord/new spinal cord.htm, being connected to the spinal cord by the dorsal roots. Whether this closeness to the spine is indicative of some aetiology involving the spinal cord is open to question but it's probably useful to make the distinction between 'spine' - the whole structure of skeleton and nerves - and spinal cord, when discussing these areas of the body.

    DRG is associated with a wide range of neuropathies, including diabetic neuropathy http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11872686 (link out to full text) . Identification of DRG on autopsy may be indicative of a range of known but undiagnosed conditions - and while that is very significant ! DRG may not be indicative of a distinct M.E/CFS aetiology.

    IVI
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  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    IVI, I have already clarified this issue. I even agree with your conclusion: "DRG may not be indicative of a distinct M.E/CFS aetiology." Its also possible its fully causal, and a lot of possible positions in between. Its not proof, its a clue.

    Dorsal root ganglions, so far as I am aware, are part of a structure that goes from the body external to the spine to the grey matter in the spinal chord, and vice versa for ventral root ganglions. My anatomy could be off, I haven't studied it for over a decade but just because a dorsal root is affected does not mean damage does not exist elsewhere on that path, only that it has not so far been detected. Such damage would alter the way the brain senses the body, resulting in incorrect brain signals to regulate body function. One thing I would want to know though is why dorsal roots and not ventral roots? They have different functions, and are bundles of different nerve types. Why is this important? Why is there any difference?

    http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=...103&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:0,i:137


    [​IMG]
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  5. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    I'm very glad you raised this in the context of the recent thread discussing the finding of small fibre neuropathy in fibromyalgia patients.

    A 'distinct ME/CFS aetiology' looks less and less likely to me.
  6. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    Could some clues come from comparing these findings from similar findings in other illnesses, where more is known about patholog, like post-polio etc. I wonder if the dorsal root nerves express receptors that make them permissive to certain viruses, that are not expressed on ventral root ganglions?


    btw Ataxic sensory neuropathy and dorsal root ganglionitis associated with Sjögren's syndrome
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  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Definately the longest silence I met from my Neurologist as having ruled out MS pondered Polio (lots of questions about how and when I received the jab or whatever).
  8. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    in addition to Sjorgen one above, see also:

    Dorsal root ganglia may be reservoirs of viral infection in multiple sclerosis


    Degenerative and inflammatory lesions in sympathetic ganglia: further morphological evidence for an autonomic neuropathy in AIDS

    ... This study provides further morphological support for the autonomic dysfunction in association with HIV infection. As for the mechanism of this dysfunction, it has been postulated a direct infection, the virus entering the ganglia through macrophages and acting as a reservoir for HIV, and an autoimmune pathogenesis. Since HIV antigens were not detected in 50% of the cases in this and in a previous study, despite the existence of morphological lesions, it is possible that, as in HIV-related sensory-motor peripheral neuropathies, an autoimmune mechanism may also play a role in the development of the autonomic lesions.

    also this one
    ... Sensory ganglia contained more gp41 HIV-1 antigen than sympathetic ganglia. There was no clear correlation between detection of HIV-1 antigens in ganglia and in the CNS. Detection of HIV-1 antigens in ganglia was more common in cases of HIV-1 infection that had progressed to clinical AIDS by the time of death (71%) than in those that had not done so (40%). It is concluded that there is commonly a mild ganglionitis which is asymptomatic in the absence of detailed clinical testing and frequently associated with local presence of HIV-1 antigens in sensory and sympathetic ganglia in AIDS.


    Interesting that someone mentioned diabetes above, since that one is also suspected to be autoimmune diseases with a viral trigger ...
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  9. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    will pm you to avoid going off topic.
  10. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Nice graphic :)
  11. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    In my case there was a big fight going on in the sympathic cord for years. Horrible pain. Now it is over. There is still some futher outwards. One spot is in my hip/buttock. When it is activated my leg and foot hurt and I loose muscle strength and control of leg. If I rub in the spot with Benzydaminehydrochloride creme symptoms lessen.

    Some cranial nerves in face are also still a problem.

    I am pretty sure whatever the infection is it was cleared from the brain first , then from the spinal cord but lingered in the perifere.
  12. In Vitro Infidelium

    In Vitro Infidelium Guest

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    I hadn't go as far as your second post - but a graphic makes understanding a lot easier.

    There is not an equivalent 'ventral ganglion' - only a connective root. The traditional view is that the dorsal root and dorsal ganglion carry sensory input/output while the ventral root carries motor function input/output, the axons for motor function are located within the spinal column and hence no need for a ventral ganglion. I'm guessing this picture has been subject to substantial sophistication in recent years. Diabetic studies have found damage in both dorsal and ventral roots http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/3/819.long , whether there are studies showing comparable damage to the rostrocaudal and dorsoventral column axons I don't know but different chemical signalling and possibly very different imune system protection may mean that these axons are less vulnerable to damage than structures in the dorsal root ganglions.

    IVI
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  13. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    'tis all Greek to me :p
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  14. Ecoclimber

    Ecoclimber Senior Member

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  15. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Είναι όλα Ελληνικά μου.:lol:
    Barb C:>)
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  16. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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  17. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    MYALGIC ENCEPHALOMYELITIS : A Baffling Syndrome With a Tragic Aftermath. By A. Melvin Ramsay M.D., Hon Consultant Physician, Infectious Diseases Dept, Royal Free Hospital. [Published 1986]

    http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/ramsey.html

    Written 26 years ago, this sentence reminded me of this thread: "herpes simplex and varicella-zoster remain in the tissues from the time of the initial invasion and can be isolated from nerve ganglia post-mortem"
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  18. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Thanks Bio. Fairly sure they aren't the only possible infections that can lead to DRG but whether all can be 'isolated' is not something I am sure of...

    More study needed. Along with more dead bodies :)
  19. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    [quote="lansbergen, post: 310867, member: 557"
    I am pretty sure whatever the infection is it was cleared from the brain first , then from the spinal cord but lingered in the perifere.[/quote]

    Lansbergen can I ask you how you cleared the infection?

    This work makes so much sense to me, and of course the link to the herpes viruses that so many ME patients feel are implicated somewhere is core to it.
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  20. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Immunemodulator levamisole.

    I do not think herpes was a big problem in my case. Anyway herpes will be silenced if the immunesystem can do its job properly.

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