1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Nitric oxide and its possible implication in ME/CFS (Part 1 of 2)
Andrew Gladman explores the current and historic hypotheses relating to nitric oxide problems in ME/CFS. Part 1 of a 2-part series puts nitric oxide under the microscope and explores what it is, what it does and why it is so frequently discussed in the world of ME/CFS. Part 1 focuses...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Genetic Genie results (23andme)

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by Bloopy Buddy, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. PathogenKiller

    PathogenKiller

    Messages:
    43
    Likes:
    31
    Yes, keep the p5p low if you feel the need to add it. Reiterating the b2 needed for balance. Greenshots gave you a good plan and explanation.
     
  2. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

    Messages:
    399
    Likes:
    139
    California

    Remember that TMG is a big methyl so I'm not sure it would be wise to start that right off the bat and skip all the others. Caledonia and I have listed several basic things that most people seem to need. The methyls come later. As for Juniemarie adding yucca, or butyrate, or something else, this really depends on how sick you are, whether you need more gut support, and other factors. I don't see how those two would hurt though. I guess the bottom line is that instead of adding in B-12 and methylfolate right away, its about getting the basics like B complex, digestive enzymes, antioxidants, some minerals, and stuff like that on board before you start methylation up. Usually, B-12 and methylfolate go together for best effects but the dosing is completely different for everyone. I know my doc likes injectables for people with MCS who can't tolerate B12 any other way but uses a variety of types for others. I don't know all that goes into her decision making but it sure is individualized.
     
  3. Bloopy Buddy

    Bloopy Buddy

    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    1
    "I guess the bottom line is that instead of adding in B-12 and methylfolate right away, its about getting the basics like B complex,"

    I'm confused here as I thought people with MTHFR could not tolerate normal B-complex w/ folic acid etc.
     
  4. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

    Messages:
    300
    Likes:
    81
    Albuquerque
    If you do a search here with the google function which you will find in the list of topics on the main forum page...use a term like b complex or b complex no folic acid or the sticky at the top of methylation section has lots of info on b complexes. I have a list of the ones people are using and if no one else answers this I will post them when I get back home. I think the main thing is that it has no folic acid and the dosage of each b is low. I am still looking for one myself as well as a decent digestive enzyme.
    Certain SNP's are important to do before getting on to the MTHFR I cant remember if you are working on CBS but if you are in the 23andme/gentic section on forum index you will find a lot of people posting who are working on CBS A good one that comes to mind is Star-Anise post on CBS Success. Also once you read caledonias links in her signature you will understand it all much better and the order the defects should be done in etc. I particularly like the Heartfixer link.
     
  5. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

    Messages:
    399
    Likes:
    139
    California

    Yes, getting the basics first is the better way for most people. Not all B complexes have folic acid, Thorne, Douglas, and others have versions with methylfolate in low dose. You can't always avoid all folate and b12 in the beginning but its usually better not to be the focus when you start up.
     
  6. Bloopy Buddy

    Bloopy Buddy

    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    1
    So after testing my urine at home numerous times it seems like sulphur load is already in the target range as mentioned on the heartfixer page. Does this mean I should not worry about BHMT and CBS?
     
  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,481
    Likes:
    9,572
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    There's probably no cause to worry about them. The only relevant BHMT result is BHMT-08 in those results, and the only relevant CBS result is 699T in those results. And with those being heterozygous, any impact is likely to be minimal. If the actual test of sulfur levels shows it isn't a problem, then it's best to go with that.
     
  8. Bloopy Buddy

    Bloopy Buddy

    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    1
    So I guess I should move on to trying MTHFR?

    B12
    Tertrahydrafolate
    P5P
    Sam-e
    Tmg
     
  9. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

    Messages:
    399
    Likes:
    139
    California
    Bloopy, you need to get the basics down before looking at the genetics. There's no other way to say this and no other way to get where you want to. If you skip all the basics, you won't tolerate all those methyls. Get a basic feel for where you are when you add in simple stuff and take some time to learn this before you rush into anything. Hurrying usually ends up in crashing and lost time.
     
  10. Bloopy Buddy

    Bloopy Buddy

    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    1
    What do you mean "the basics"?
    I thought the idea was to work on CBS/BMHT based on my profile, but only if those are actually affecting my system which would manifest in high sulphur (poor sulphur metabolism). Why would I spend the next couple months of my life fooling around with lowering sulphur if my sulphur levels are already in the target range?

    I thought the whole point of testing is to figure out out what we do or don't need.
     
  11. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

    Messages:
    300
    Likes:
    81
    Albuquerque
    Whats the recommended protocol for treating BHMT-08?

     
  12. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

    Messages:
    399
    Likes:
    139
    California
    Bloopy, These are from previous discussions in this same thread

    More recent post

    Remember that TMG is a big methyl so I'm not sure it would be wise to start that right off the bat and skip all the others. Caledonia and I have listed several basic things that most people seem to need. The methyls come later. As for Juniemarie adding yucca, or butyrate, or something else, this really depends on how sick you are, whether you need more gut support, and other factors. I don't see how those two would hurt though.

    PLEASE READ: I guess the bottom line is that instead of adding in B-12 and methylfolate right away, its about getting the basics like B complex, digestive enzymes, antioxidants, some minerals, and stuff like that on board before you start methylation up. Usually, B-12 and methylfolate go together for best effects but the dosing is completely different for everyone. I know my doc likes injectables for people with MCS who can't tolerate B12 any other way but uses a variety of types for others. I don't know all that goes into her decision making but it sure is individualized.




    First post about this from this thread
    P5P isn't good right now cuz of the CBS, but maybe you could use low doses of 10mg
    DMG shouldn't be used before TMG. You have to get the short route up and running with the BHMTs before you can fix the MTRR problem.

    I'd say molyb sounds right and you need basic B vitamins and digestive enzymes to start. Then maybe a little hydroxy B 12 and vit c for free radicals. Then maybe some low dose SAMe to get rolling a little more. Unless your super type A and sympathetic dominant, niacin will just eat up more methyls so I'm not sure about even adding that one.
    The goal is clean up not fixing the genes just yet. If you go after the genes first, you make more garbage. And when were sick, were already overflowing with garbage. This is the reason Yasko has so many foundation sups so there is a method to her madness although i don't think you need that whole list she gives. I think Caledonia may have some good input here. Remember that we dn't know who you are or what you've been thru or been exposed to so this changes things too. I would start low and go slow on some more benign stuff before your dumping in a bunch of methyls.

     
  13. Bloopy Buddy

    Bloopy Buddy

    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    1
    " its about getting the basics like B complex, digestive enzymes, antioxidants, some minerals, and stuff like that on board before you start methylation up."

    I have taken a B complex for about 6 months out of the past year. I have been doing digestive enzymes, vit c, vit e, magnesium, vit d, and fish oil (amongst other things) for the past year.
    I can't say that I notice any specific benefit or marked improvement from any of these. They all might help in very minute ways, but I need to find something that makes a real difference.
    If my urine sulphur levels are in the target range, again, why am I fooling around with months of treating CBS and BMHT with diet and more expensive supplements? There are many treatments out there to consider and as you know you can't so them all at once so I need to find out which ones are relevant and which ones aren't.
    For all I know, I could follow every single step for each POSSIBLE snp and get nowhere slowly.

    I am asking for objective measures of weighing which ones I should work on, but you are not clarifying things in that department. I am not interested in chasing mirages.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,481
    Likes:
    9,572
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    Bloopy Buddy
    If we ignore your results for the SNPs which aren't shown to effect gene functioning, your results would look like:
    CBS 699T +/-
    BHMT 08 +/-
    MTRR K350A +/-
    MTRR H595Y +/-
    MTHFR A1298C +/-

    The VDR Bsm has some research going both ways, but most of it indicates that the risk is from CC, not TT (with a possible exception for the bone density of Iranian women).

    CBS and BHMT are probably mild. If worried, try a sulfur strip to be sure you're not too high due to CBS. But the research I've seen indicates that the effects of those genotypes upon gene function, while statistically significant, are quite small (we're talking about a few percentage points).

    Heterozygous MTHFR A1298C is most strongly implicated when combined with heterozygous MTHFR C677T (30% functionality of the gene), which you don't have. http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929707615249 talks about this. I don't have full access, but the implication (via not mentioning it in the abstract) is that heterzygous A1298C wasn't a problem on its own - but that's not certain. So some amount of methylB12 might be helpful, maybe even large amounts. Or maybe not :p

    The impression I got regarding MTRR K250A and H595Y is that they do have a statistically significant impact, but not a big one. So again, maybe a few percentage points each. A normal dose of methylfolate (not folic acid) may be helpful.

    Summary: a normal dose of methylfolate, and some amount (low or high dose?) of methylB12 might help. And sulfur strip testing if you're worried about CBS.
     
  15. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

    Messages:
    399
    Likes:
    139
    California
    Ok, normally people will say what they are already taking but I musta missed you saying so. I didn't re read this to check that but if so, it was an oversight. I wasn't trying to be belittling by repeating it, just wanted to make sure you knew that the basics were needed first. I don't think you'll ever find any one supplement being a huge deal by itself but making sure the critical stuff is covered allows you to handle the genetics stuff better. As far as a "mirage" I'm not sure what you mean but I promise to keep my thoughts to myself for the specific methylation stuff. I wish you all the best.


     
  16. LynnD

    LynnD

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    0
    Hello
    Just got my results from 23and me and want to learn more. Have read that can have the genes but they may not be expressed(is that even if have homozygous MTHFRC677T?). Have been tryinbg to add minerals for years. 1 Dr prescribed yrs ago methyl B12 and it helped so much with brain and energy function but seemed to need more and more(even though had always been high end on blood tests for folic acid and B12).
    Wonder what people find good for minerals, as when took a vite C with Ca,Mg,potassium would get more leg cramps at night then already getting (still sometimes, last nbight just twitching). I just take a few drops per day of liquic MB12 nowdays, multiple react to , though better then none ,extra B1.
    Thank you for ideas and links to info.will try to put my snp on this page.
    Lynn D

    Gene & VariationrsIDAllelesResult
    COMT V158Mrs4680AA+/+
    COMT H62Hrs4633TT-/-
    COMT P199Prs769224GG-/-
    VDR Bsmrs1544410TT+/+
    VDR Taqrs731236GG-/-
    VDR Fok-Inot foundn/an/a
    MAO A R297Rrs6323TT+/+
    ACAT1-02rs3741049AG+/-
    MTHFR C677Trs1801133AA+/+ need folate
    MTHFR 03 P39Prs2066470GG-/-
    MTHFR A1298Crs1801131TT-/-
    MTR A2756Grs1805087AG-/+
    MTRR A66Grs1801394AA+/+ NEED methylB12
    MTRR H595Yrs10380CC-/-
    MTRR K350Ars162036AA+/+
    MTRR R415Trs2287780CC-/-
    MTRR S257Tnot foundn/an/a
    MTRR A664Ars1802059AG+/-
    BHMT-01not foundn/an/a
    BHMT-02rs567754CC+/+
    BHMT-04rs617219AA+/+
    BHMT-08rs651852CT+/-
    AHCY-01rs819147TT-/-
    AHCY-02rs819134AA-/-
    AHCY-19rs819171TT-/-
    CBS C699Trs234706GG-/-
    CBS A360Ars1801181AA+/+
    CBS N212Nrs2298758GG-/-
    SUOX S370Snot foundn/an/a
    NOS3 D298Enot foundn/an/a
    SHMT1 C1420Trs1979277AG+/-
    BCHErs1799807TT
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page