Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Gene Expression

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Sam7777, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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    I do have mercury toxicity. But that considered, I have met more than enough people who didn't the last 7 years. There were a number well quite a few who had other high exotic metals on their hair tests, as well and not mercury per say. I've met plenty of mold victims as well. And what I take were countless cases of peoples bodies being overwhelmed by various exposure. My father personally I suspect was exposed to heavy chemicals in degreasers for large engines.

    My mother was definitely exposed to metals. It would be easy to blame everything on just mercury given what I've seen, but actually I've seen plenty who simply weren't dealing with metals. It's also abundently clear the ME community seems plagued by various viral or bacterial concerns. This is usually EBV or something a long those lines. I do have to emphasize strongly that a HIGH portion of the Lyme's people I've encountered had mercury and metals...

    This is the oft toted and oft vilified alternative health concept of people losing their health to a combination of pollution and infection. The medical community and science departments seem invested in conjecture towards environmental health at just about every level, except for the actual departments involved with environmental protection and environmental health and occupational safety research (I speculate it is legally and academically compartmentalized from the biomedical communities to a high degree).

    But it's fairly clear, fairly logical that people are being affected by some combination of infection and pollution. Not in a vague sense, but in a very concrete sense. Columbia admits its related to what looks like a lack of recovery from infection. People repeatedly show some sign of auto immunity, EBV, mercury, Lyme's, other metals (again people neglect that its not just Hg), injury by prescriptions,. . . .over and over and over....looks like a skunk smells like a skunk acts like a skunk.....

    So we have Fredd's protocol. And there's really a debate going on in the chelation community about the usefulness of genetics at all. I am somewhere in the middle. I think its very clear mercury does bad things, metals do bad things, they affect genes. That doesn't mean the practioner approach to snps is accurate.

    Cutler mind you, doesn't really consider genetics at all. He doesn't consider that people could have some sort of bioindividual problem filtering out metals that is directly related to a higher need of nutrients. This is in contrast to the direct fact that some people have simply not gotten better until they treated methylation and mercury.

    The concept of genetics and pollution is probably inescapable, because I suspect already, that the people who become ill from amalgams represent a small sub-population genetically. This is at least partly represented by certain alleles such as APOE4, but I would have to imagine there are endless other possible pitfalls.

    To Chris Shade's credit, he has at least emphasized that there is a bell curve in the genetic population of people who are exposed and this dictates how well they handle the exposure. I believe the amalgam illness itself is biased towards specific populations.

    One of the concepts in Cutler's book is the emphasize on Phase 1 and 2 enzymes; phase 1 is overactive or underactive etc Here's a decent link that explains the general concepts of metabolic detoxification. What you quickly realize is how much more is involved than just methylation, and thus how many areas there are for things to go wrong.
    http://www.lifeextension.com/protocols/metabolic-health/metabolic-detoxification/page-01
    I think frankly, that methylation is only part of the picture. Gene expression and not arguably so much snps in and of themselves, and how gene expression is affected by things like carpet fumes and metals is the ultra obvious concern. In this case snps are obviously better to look at than nothing at all, but much like Fredd's protocol the real struggle is understanding what has lowered enzyme function and reduced an entire pathway due to a lack of some molecular input, protein, what have you, and trying to power supplement some missing nutrient. Shade understood this and focused on trying to raise the GTS and Trx1 etc enzymes for glutathione and thioredoxin, but again that's just a slice of the pie.

    My biggest suggestion is for people here to start reading and citing journals out of environmental journals. Look at sources for the EPA and OSHA, look at anything you can where you see cases of study on gene expression and dysfunction in the liver. I frankly don't trust biomedicine as an industry all that much as much as I do the environmental fields. I think sources that assume and look for pollutants are ideal.

    It's actually really sad, because I've encountered multiple 700 page EPA technical documents where they admit that autopsied dentist had about 50 times as much mercury in the brain as a control. The EPA basically admits that amalgams aren't fantastic, but whatever I suppose.

    I do suggest given the recent 70 page thread that people here try the supplement TUDCA, since it seems to be very consistent in enhancing liver function in many of the key manners that R-lipoic acid and the simplified methylation protocol enhance. The fact that body builders are using and abusing TUDCA to get away with steroids and actually benefiting from it is at least a good sign (dumb on their part), but great news for people who didn't voluntarily choose to destroy their liver.

    Anecdotally (well there's also plenty of Chinese authored papers on such plants) Traditional chinese medicine is obsessed with bile function. Many of the best plants affect it to a large degree, predominantly the berberine containing compounds, and things such as Gentian root, Burdock, Magnolia, SkullCap, Buplereum. I feel like that is the direction to go. Frankly, the only thing that's kept me going has been holy basil and magnolia. Without that I would really struggle.

    I know what we want: We want specific snps, proteins, ya know specific enzymes that could be pinpointed as causing some failure to control severe inflammation/auto immunity/oxidation. Well, I'm saying you could probably learn a lot studying some of the EPA stuff, some of the stuff in journals like Environmental Health.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
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  2. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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  3. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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  4. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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  5. Sam7777

    Sam7777 Senior Member

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    An example of how metaboliic detoxification can be approach is fairly concisely explained by life extension group

    I have spent a good portion of 2015 studying R-lipoic specifically to try to distinguish it from Alpha lipoic acid. While they aren't radically different, R-la is in and of itself extremely potent as an anti-oxidant/redox regulator/liver metabolism boosting molecule. It of course depends on what damage is done to the liver and by what compound but I think life extension has the big picture down.

    If its mercury or metals you obviously have to watch out for R-la, since it redistributes several heavy metals, which is what happened to me, only with alpha lipoic (I argue that alpha lipoic is a much stronger chelator than R-la, but Shade and Cutler's community refuse to deal with the issue, and Cutler's community has demonized R-la without providing any scientific explanation).

    The idea that something like artichoke extract or I3C could make a huge difference for some people isn't a stretch though. Some people have specific blockades or residual pollutants or just weak areas of metabolism, and in other cases it doesn't matter. Certainly with metals nothing will ever change unless you get the metal out.
     

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