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Gamma globulin

Rrrr

Senior Member
Messages
1,591
I just heard that at Costco, you can get Gamunex for $46/gram!

the head nurse at my doctor's clinic called gamunex-C or else acreedo pharmacy (i am not sure which she called) and found that if you buy 1 gram out of pocket (i.e. self pay) it would cost about $95 for 1 gram of gamunex-C.

if you get more than 1 gram, i assume the price drops proportionally. (i.e. maybe a 5 gram bottle would be $300???)

once the bottle is punctured, you have to use it in a few hours. or so they say. does @Ema or anyone know if this is true or not?
 

Rrrr

Senior Member
Messages
1,591
well, i have gone down hill. it is hard to lift my arms to wash my hair again. hard to think again. etc. not sure why. i think i'll try adding antivirals back in. meanwhile, boo hoo.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
Hi all. Ema...i am waiting fo the IgG results ...had the blood drawn 2 days ago.

Rrrr.....aaack. maybe this is supposed to be a roller coaster. sorry you feel bad again.

I didn't know you had to use the bottle within a few hours. I don't think its that much cheaper if you buy more, because a 2.5 g bottle is $324.99 at Walgreens with maybe a 10% discount on top.

xo
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
the head nurse at my doctor's clinic called gamunex-C or else acreedo pharmacy (i am not sure which she called) and found that if you buy 1 gram out of pocket (i.e. self pay) it would cost about $95 for 1 gram of gamunex-C.

if you get more than 1 gram, i assume the price drops proportionally. (i.e. maybe a 5 gram bottle would be $300???)

once the bottle is punctured, you have to use it in a few hours. or so they say. does @Ema or anyone know if this is true or not?
I don't think the price drops proportionally, unfortunately.

Hating to be the Debbie Downer around here, but I'm also not sure that even Acreedo would sell *just* the IgG product. I think they make their money not only on the product but on the nursing and supplies that come with it. But again, hopefully I'm wrong and if the doctor prescribed it as a vial with butterflies, hopefully they would be required to supply it that way.

It's really hard to get pricing out of Acreedo. They are not equipped to deal with self-pay since the cost of the drugs usually limits those who would have the ability to do so. But I'll give it a shot next week. I have a really nice rep there that I have dealt with for more than a year.

I have struggled with the question about opened bottles myself. For Hizentra, I know that there are no preservatives and both the manufacturer and the pharmacist insist that it must be used immediately once air is let in. However, I believe that there are doctors around that let it stay open for a while longer. Personally, even though I would rather multi dose, I've chosen to use my last few 10 g bottles all at once to be better safe than sorry. I do think it would be a risk to leave a bottle open for a few days in a row.
 

boohealth

Senior Member
Messages
243
Location
south
There was clear benefit in a peer review study on lyme neuropathy and IVIG but not sure that's covered.

I am pretty sure you cannot get it through a pharmacy. It has to be drop shipped to your doctor via one of several distributors.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
i found a quote from dr cowden re: IVIG:

Lee Cowden
Intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIG) is a pooling of the blood serum of approximately 100 humans. The blood donors are not screened for Borrelia, Bartonella, Babesia, Ehrlichia or a lot of other disease-causing microbes. Because of this, I rarely recommend the IVIG in people with low immune function.

---------

i understood that IVIG is treated to kill pathogens and something is even done for prions?!
 

Rrrr

Senior Member
Messages
1,591
on the various companies websites, they have info on how they process their particular med.
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
i found a quote from dr cowden re: IVIG:

Lee Cowden
Intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIG) is a pooling of the blood serum of approximately 100 humans. The blood donors are not screened for Borrelia, Bartonella, Babesia, Ehrlichia or a lot of other disease-causing microbes. Because of this, I rarely recommend the IVIG in people with low immune function.

---------

i understood that IVIG is treated to kill pathogens and something is even done for prions?!
It is...none of that makes any sense.

First off, the donor pool is 10,000-50,000 - not 100.

From primary immune.org:

The blood, or plasma, from each donor is carefully tested for evidence of transmissible diseases, such as AIDS or hepatitis, and any plasma sample that is even suspected of having one of those viruses is discarded. The first step in Ig production is to remove all the red and white blood cells. This is frequently done right as it comes out of the donor’s arm by a process called plasmapheresis, which collects the plasma and then returns the red and white cells directly back to the donor. Plasmapheresis is done at centers specifically designated for this purpose. Then, the immunoglobulins are chemically purified from the plasma in a series of steps. This process results in the purification of antibodies of the IgG class; only trace amounts of IgA and IgM, and other plasma proteins remain in the final product.

In the early 1980’s, new manufacturing processes were developed to make Ig preparations that could be safely injected intravenously, that is directly into the vein. Now multiple Ig preparations are licensed in the U.S. for intravenous use. Products developed for intravenous use have also been used successfully subcutaneously, which is administered under the skin, and in recent years products for subcutaneous use have been licensed. For the most part, the products are equivalent in antibody activity. However, there are some differences, which may make one particular preparation more suitable than another for a given individual. Most products contain some type of sugar or amino acid that help preserve the IgG molecules and prevent them from sticking together to form aggregates. If aggregates were present, they could cause severe side effects. Although these sugar and protein additives are harmless for most people, some of them may cause problems for specific individuals. Your prescriber is your best source of information about which product is best for you.

Purified Ig has been used for nearly 50 years and has an excellent safety record. During the purification process and with the final product, there are several steps that destroy or remove many types of viruses, including HIV, to ensure that the final Ig product cannot transmit any known infectious diseases to the patient. Thus, the final Ig product contains highly purified plasma IgG that has a broad range of specific antibodies to many types of bacteria and viruses. It is also effective in helping the white cells in the body kill bacteria, viruses and other germs that may be in the tissues or blood of the patient being treated, and is safe to administer.
 

Tito

Senior Member
Messages
300
I am with Cowden on this.

If every donor was tested for all KNOWN infections, it would cost more than $5,000 for each of them. They therefore would not be able to sell each dose at $46 or so. What they say is that they test for the most common KNOWN infections like Hiv and HepC, and they HOPE the rest will be avoided through the purification process (or if accidentally injected to the patient, they HOPE the very few viruses/bacteria will be contained by the immune system)... It is the reasoning they followed for the growth hormone when it was still extracted from dead brains with the outcome we all know.

(Essentially, if they don't test Hiv and HepC, they know they will lose the litigation. For other pathogens, they know the claimant won't be able to prove anything.)

To me, hoping the product is okay is very different from guaranteeing that the product is pure. I am not saying they plan to deliberately contaminate us. The science is just not there to be sure the product is pure enough. Let's keep in mind that immunoglobulins are not a tested treatment for ME. At best, we are talking here about anecdotal reports of improvement.

Sorry to sound negative, but I am a bit tired of being used as a guinea pig at my own cost by doctors who just cannot admit there is currently no treatment for us.
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
To me, hoping the product is okay is very different from guaranteeing that the product is pure. I am not saying they plan to deliberately contaminate us. The science is just not there to be sure the product is pure enough. Let's keep in mind that immunoglobulins are not a tested treatment for ME. At best, we are talking here about anecdotal reports of improvement.

Sorry to sound negative, but I am a bit tired of being used as a guinea pig at my own cost by doctors who just cannot admit there is currently no treatment for us.

There are no guarantees in life, in anything. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is touting this as a treatment for ME/CFS. Those of us that are trying it are using it for it's intended purpose...immunoglobulin replacement when levels are low or absent. And for this purpose, it is literally life saving.

Though it would be great if someone would study it for ME/CFS as well in greater detail. I think there is great potential there as well for those of us that don't mind being guinea pigs.

I would suggest you review the article I posted above which details the purification process to better understand the science involved. Bacteria are enormous compared with viruses and prions etc. The filtration methods alone would catch them. You don't have to test for everything. That science IS there and has been for some time.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
i am not sure if i should bother...1 gram a week is all i can afford and thats literally nothing from what i hear. i have read that teitelbaum says even 1 gram a week can help, but i am not sure if it would be worth it.

burrascano, who said it is key to recovery in late stage etc.....i think recommends a lot more than that.

rrrr..how are you doing now?
 

Rrrr

Senior Member
Messages
1,591
I am with Cowden on this.

If every donor was tested for all KNOWN infections, it would cost more than $5,000 for each of them. They therefore would not be able to sell each dose at $46 or so. What they say is that they test for the most common KNOWN infections like Hiv and HepC, and they HOPE the rest will be avoided through the purification process (or if accidentally injected to the patient, they HOPE the very few viruses/bacteria will be contained by the immune system)... It is the reasoning they followed for the growth hormone when it was still extracted from dead brains with the outcome we all know.

(Essentially, if they don't test Hiv and HepC, they know they will lose the litigation. For other pathogens, they know the claimant won't be able to prove anything.)

To me, hoping the product is okay is very different from guaranteeing that the product is pure. I am not saying they plan to deliberately contaminate us. The science is just not there to be sure the product is pure enough. Let's keep in mind that immunoglobulins are not a tested treatment for ME. At best, we are talking here about anecdotal reports of improvement.

Sorry to sound negative, but I am a bit tired of being used as a guinea pig at my own cost by doctors who just cannot admit there is currently no treatment for us.


@Tito -- actually, Dr. Burrascano, a well known lyme doc who also knows about me/cfs (one of the rare lyme doctors who follows me/cfs, too, from what i have heard), says IVIG is a good treatment for me/cfs. i had posted this below paragraph in my first post on this thread and i'll cut and paste it again here. see below. that said, i totally get not wanting to be a guinea pig. i can respect that a great deal. but for me, i've been one for 2 decades now. so i guess i'm just continuing along on that course. sigh...


From first post on this thread: "This is a slide show from the lyme expert Dr. Burrascano. In his slide show he says IVIG (intravenous injections of gamma-globulin) is key to the recovery of long term lyme and ME/CFS http://www.lymepa.org/What_s_new__Slides_Sept_2008.pdf
 

Rrrr

Senior Member
Messages
1,591
i am not sure if i should bother...1 gram a week is all i can afford and thats literally nothing from what i hear. i have read that teitelbaum says even 1 gram a week can help, but i am not sure if it would be worth it.

burrascano, who said it is key to recovery in late stage etc.....i think recommends a lot more than that.

rrrr..how are you doing now?

well, as you all know, i was doing GREAT until i shot up with more gamma globulin last week. since then i shot up twice and each time it makes me really sick. and they are tiny amounts! 2/10th and 1/10th of a cc. so i'm going to put more shots on hold for a bit and see what happens.

and i'll likely re-start an antiviral.

my doc suggested Amantadine and Immunovir.

but i may go back on the famvir. not sure yet.

so in short, no change since my last post a few days ago. i'm not doing well since the last 2 shots of gg (ig: immunoglobulin).
 

Rrrr

Senior Member
Messages
1,591
update from the person who started this thread, about 9 weeks into doing micro doses of gamma globulin shots.

as a reminder, i did my last shot on saturday (1/10th of a gram of Gamunex-C), and i have been screwed ever since. in fact, i seemed to get sicker by the day, culminating in yesterday, thursday, 5 days after that last shot.

yesterday (thursday) i was soooo sick that i could barely walk to the bathroom -- i mean i couldn't really lift my legs to walk. i had to shuffle to the bathroom. literally. too weak to make myself anything to eat. etc. you get the picture. it was horrible. in bed, really sick.

then, suddenly, today i did great! i was able to go out TWICE today, including to a public political lecture/meeting a few towns over. a public political meeting! i have not been able to go to a political event like that in years and years and years. and there i was! at this one! tonight! i couldn't really walk, as my legs still felt like jelly, but i was still full of energy (except my muscles, i mean).

so this is the 3rd time during the 9 weeks i've been on this protocol that something like this has happened: where i was sick as a dog one day, and then amazingly better the next day. almost symptom-free! (except my muscles, which were still weak.) how weird is that? it is like a complete turn around overnight. this is very unusual for me, but it has happened 3 times since staring the gamma globulin.

it reminds me of new england weather -- one day it can snow, and the next day it can be 70 degrees out.

i have no idea what to make of this protocol, my unique protocol of randomly administered micro doses of gamma globulin.

crazy weird.

now i have no idea if i'll be bedridden tomorrow. and i have no idea if i should shoot up again with gamma globulin or just wait a week or so.

one other factor: over the last few weeks, i have also been playing around with vinpocetine, a supplement that is supposed to help the brain. my sudden recovery over night corresponded with re-starting vinpocetine yesterday. hmmm? i wonder if it is linked?