The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Further Evidence Supporting The Crucial Role Played By Dietary Fatty Acids In Autoimmunity

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Theodore, Oct 24, 2015.

  1. Theodore

    Theodore Senior Member

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    Hi,

    This article was released regarding an interesting paper.

    "Implicated in MS however, are the sub-types Th1 and Th17 which excite the immune response and which, without the correct balance from the suppressor cells to calm it down again, have the capacity to cause inflammation and promote MS activity."

    "Crucially, what the research paper here shows is that these original T cells are profoundly influenced by the dietary fatty acids we introduce to the gut, through their interaction with bacteria living in our gut, the so-called gut microbiome. The more middle- and long-chain fatty acids we consume, the greater the growth (from the T cells) of the potentially damaging Th1 and Th17 cells. The more short-chain fatty acids we consume, the more likely there is to be growth of the suppressor T cells (Tregs) which modulate the immune system and therefore avoid autoimmune disease."


    In ME there is a Th2 activation. Should we eat more fast food?
     
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  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    The evidence for T cell roles is based on a mouse disease EAE which, as far as I know, has nothing to do with MS, although it looks vaguely like it on tissue sections. I do not think anybody knows what T cells are doing in real MS, or ME or autoimmunity in general much. I am pretty sure autoimmunity has nothing to do with Th1 or Th2 or Th17 being up or down. I would forget it.
     
  3. Theodore

    Theodore Senior Member

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    Ok autoimmunity has nothing to do with Th1 or Th2 but what's about and the whole paleo diet like Dr. Terry Wahls?
     
  4. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I do not know of any good reason to think diet has any effect on autoimmunity. Fatty acids can affect inflammatory mechanisms once autoimmunity is in place perhaps, but useful effects of dietary change in diseases like RA have not been found as far as I know. Fish oils might help lupus a bit but nobody is very impressed.
     
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  5. Theodore

    Theodore Senior Member

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    If diet has no effect on autoimmunity then what's about the case of Dr. Terry Wahls who claimed to have cured through diet?
     
  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I do not know of this case but remember that autoimmune disease disappear of their own accord - with a frequency that varies with the disease. In some only about 1% remit spontaneously, in others about 60%.

    Looking at google I see that Wahls had MS. MS is episodic, At any time you may stop having episodes for ever. The majority of people I know with MS have stopped having episodes. So it is the one disease where you cannot draw any conclusions from dieting at all!!!
     
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  7. Theodore

    Theodore Senior Member

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    You may more right than me and I am just wondering but is possible with this disease to get back to normal from being in a wheelchair just like this? Because that's how she was, in a wheelchair. I thought in MS you can stop having episodes when you stay where you were, you don't really improve but I can be wrong.
     
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    If there is permanent damage to brain or spinal cord then that cannot improve, whatever treatment you have. Diet cannot alter dead nerves any more than rituximab or interferon. But if the damage is such that the brain can accommodate by re-learning how to move arms and legs - which it can to a considerable extent - or the immobility is due to the immediate effects of inflammation rather than damage then a lot of recovery may be possible. But it will occur whether or not you have any treatment. It is very common for people with a first episode of MS to be unable to walk for many weeks or months and then recover so that nobody can tell there is anything wrong with them, except an MD doing a detailed neurological examination. I have a good friend who had a year off with MS about twenty years ago who has put it completely behind him. Luckily he seemed only ever to have two episodes.
     
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  9. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    prof,

    Do you think it could be the case that in some cases of potential ME/CFS autoimmunity, irreversible damage occurs like with MS? I know this is probably hard to answer..
     
  10. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    There will be no structural damage of the sort seen in MS. If that occurred it would have been documented a century ago by pathologists. There may be a few exceptions under the heading of ME but I think they will probably be specific encephalopathies that as yet have not been identified - but very rare. Basically the answer is no. There might be mre subtle changes that are irreversible but I suspect not.
     
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  11. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Ok thanks:) I was wondering since it has been found in some reported autopsies.
     
  12. Theodore

    Theodore Senior Member

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    Thank you Dr.
     
  13. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    There are a very small number of significant autopsy reports in ME/CFS, which Charles has been involved with. Even these may have been reversible inflammatory changes, at least in part. Moreover, I think if they are relevant to the general ME/CFS population they probably represent a severe end of a spectrum that may help us understand but is not typical. If damage was present more often then MRI should show it.
     
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