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Frequent pins and needles.

Discussion in 'Peripheral Neuropathy' started by justy, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi all, i was wondering if anyone else gets very frequent pins and needles that resolve quite quickly. I know i spend a lot of time laying down and sitting, so maybe its caused by this. I particularly get it at night in my arms/hands and also sometimes legs. I get it in my arms about 3-4 times a night for the last few months now and it always wakes me up. It is usually on the side i am sleeping on.

    This could just be perfectly normal - it all makes sense. But it does seem very frequent - and i have slept in this same positions for many years without having pins and needles. I do also get it in the day, it tends to come on very quickly as soon as i lean on an arm or LEG.

    This is a bit strange but i have also, on a few occasions had pins and needles in the lady department - not after sitting for too long- which is very very weird and takes longer than the arms and legs for the sensation to come back.

    Take care, Justy.x
  2. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

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    Justy............seems like I go through cycles of the limbs falling asleep very easily. I notice it more at night when I'm asleep..........I'll wake up and notice my whole arm is practically numb from no circulation...........the cycle lasts several weeks and then it gets better...............so it is an on and off thing for me. As for pins and needles in the lady dept...........I wonder if that could be actually referred from another area. For instance if my lower back is really bothering me.......sometimes it causes other sensations in the lady dept.
  3. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    justy

    Have you thought of seeing a DO? I ask because I have had a lot of help from one and he always asks whether I have had any pins and needles.

    Best,
    Sushi
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi Tammy, yes, for me this problem is also in cycles. I don't tend to get it much in my legs though, I get leg cramps instead. Most of this issue for me is just in my hands. Bye, Alex
  5. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    Not sure how bad you are, but yoga really helps my nerve problems.

    The great thing is, one can probably find free yoga videos online. That way you don't even need to leave the house.

    Gentle yoga is pretty easy and one doesn't even really stand up with gentle yoga.
  6. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    B12 deficiency? It causes pins and needles...
  7. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks for the replies,
    Sushi - what is a DO? sorry not heard this one before.

    Arx - B12 is fine - been supplementing with daily MB12 injections for a year now.

    Jarod - not able to do even gentle yoga regularly on top of my daily activities - although i do hope to get back to this level at some point, it has evaded me for the last 4 years.

    Alex and Tammy - mine seems to be my whole arm - from hand up to near the shoulder. Yes get leg twitches too. Never had this so consistently before - not every night for months.
    What do you think causes it? somebody mentioned nerves - not sure how that works. B6 needed maybe? i havent been taking it because of worries due to having a severe overreaction to an ssri that left me with serious side effects for over two years - i was advised to stay away from B6 as well.

    All the best, Justy
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I think this is most likely a circulation problem. B12 does have an impact on circulation though in a roundabout fashion. So might other supplements. The problem is we are all guessing and experimenting. Every so often I try something new. This latest issue is after experimenting with resverotrol, though I don't think resverotrol is to blame itself.
  9. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi alex,
    Could you elaborate more on your dosage and experience with resveratrol? i have bought the doctor's best bottle and have yet to start a trial. From what i have read, it is good for mitochondria. i would like to know your views and which biochemical process does resveratrol come into play.

    Thanks.
  10. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Also, the circulation issue might be a cofactor deficiency ..?
  11. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Could it be folic acid?
  12. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I really don't know,but it very well can be. Fred or some other expert who has analyzed particular details might be better to answer this. But there is no harm in trying things out. Instead it will help you to gain more insight, as we all need different things for different symptoms.
    Take l-methylfolate(metafolin) instead of folic acid.800mcg is the recommended dose,I think. Folate is very important for B12 to work. So are many other things.....
    justy likes this.
  13. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Electrolyte imbalance is also a possibility? Potassium is needed with B12 supplementation..Different people need different dosages depending on their protocol and rate of healing..

    If you want to consider the B12 and cofactor issue as the cause for this,come over to the B12 forum and post there,you might get more replies in the B12 context..
    justy likes this.
  14. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    A DO is a doctor of osteopathy. They are fully qualified medical practitioners with the same privileges as M.D.'s in most countries--but they do a lot of their work by manipulation of body structure and alignment. For instance there could be something out of alignment that is reducing circulation or causing pressure on a nerve.

    Best,
    Sushi
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I used to experiment with pycnogenol and grape seed extract. With the original pycnogenol (which was made from grape seed, not pine bark, pine bark was a later change to the formula) I got results at four capsules but not less, which made it very expensive. Resverotrol has a similar issue.

    Lower dose resverotrol doesn't appear to do anything much. It must be making some small shift in antioxidant status and eicosanoid synthesis, but its not noticable up to about a month on 300mg or so. At 1.2mg I do notice a difference, even when only taken once.The particular resverotrol I am using also contains a small amount of grape seed, and the resverotrol is grape seed derived (not the other cheaper kind).

    I am finding that resverotrol can counter-balance other antioxidants such as those that boost glutathione (and hence methylation protocols). This is, I theorize, because these protocols increase eicosanoid synthesis, whereas resverotrol decreases eicosanoid synthesis. There are issues here though. Reseverotrol shuts down PGD2 synthesis, do too much without a counter-balance and you could have major issues sleeping, as PGD2 is a critical sleep trigger. I am facing these symptoms at the moment - so in effect I am still experimenting to find a balance.

    This of course presumes a balance can be reached. Many things have no static balance as they are too dynamic (read chaotic) to achieve a balance. This depends on the nature of the regulatory and non-regulatory feedback loops and is impossible to predict theoretically. It requires experimentation, which I am doing.It may also vary highly from individual to individual, a problem with many therapies in ME.

    I find that there are two general symptom states in ME, after the work by Martinovic in the 90s. This is not quite true, its about as relevant as talkign of Th1/Th2 which is oversimplified. However its simpler to discuss it this way in a "brief" (but getting longer ;) ) comment.

    The two states could be summarized as excess eicosanoids and deficient eicosanoids, more or less (there are confounding factors). Excess gives muscle pain, headaches, fatigue, increased sleep, more brain fog etc. Its generally driven by omega-6 fats and antioxidants. Deficiency leads to less sleep, more neurological symptoms including pain and weakness. Its possible to have both states at the same time however due to these states being a composite of many types of eicosanoid effects. Generally speaking they tend to be separate however. The deficiency state is usually driven by glutathione depletion, a point I have been making since 1998.

    Inflammation drives both states. First, it blocks synthesis by promoting oxidative stress. Second it promotes overutilization by driving the cyclooxygenase enzyme activity.

    Resverotrol is anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidative and anti-eicosanoid synthesis. So in theory the issues raised by methylation and antioxidant therapies can be controlled by reseverotrol even though its an antioxidant. That makes it very interesting to me.

    My suggestions for anyone trying resverotrol is either to balance it with other antioxidants or methylation aimed at boosting glutathione, or alternatively titrate the dosage to a low tolerated level.

    Bye, Alex

    PS Something I should have mentioned, eicosanoids are profoundly related to vasoregulation, I need to research this more.
    arx likes this.
  16. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I used to get what you are describing frequency (all except the pins and needles in the ladies parts.. I'd thou get it in my butt cheeks if I sat on a hard chair). At night, I used to have nightly issues in bed with whatever arm I was laying on at the shoulder, that whole arm then falling asleep and that waking me but it used to take several minutes for my circulation to get back. This at times was happening to me several times per night.

    My case was clearly an issue with circulation as one could see no blood at been getting properly to my fingers and hands.. Other times I'd wake up with them completely numb and hardly able to move them due to lack of blood flow but as soon as I moved, pins and needles would kick in terribly.

    Consider possible circulation issues.. and possible symptom of low blood volume or poor flow.
  17. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Try elevating a part of the body while lying down with a pillow or something(~1 inch above the bed). I've been told it helps a lot with circulation issues while lying down. I put a pillow below my legs.
  18. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Tania, what you describe is Exactly what i am experiencing. I have always had 'poor' circulation, even as a child. I get cold hands and feet and very low body temperatures. Once i get even a bit too cold i cannot warm up again just by putting on extra clothes - i have to get into a warmer environment such as by a fire or in bed with a hot water bottle and heating on. I once, years ago, got so cold in bed that i started shaking and could not stop - it got worse and worse until i had to call an ambulance (i didnt know what it was - it wasnt the winter either) the hospital staff werent very helpful and threw me out to get home at 2 am. Since then, this has started to heppen a number of times - ususally if i stay up too late and i now know that it means get into bed with a hot water bottle fast - this stops it from progressing.

    Thanks everyone for your suggestions and comments.
    Justy x
  19. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    me too with all the above including the getting so cold thing that one is shaking in bed unable to stop Fortunately i nowdays rarely get that either. I only now have issues with my body not being able to warm my body up without an external heat source if Im crashing bad (and yeah as you say.. putting extra jumpers on dont help this state.. i used to end up having to get out of bed and into a hot bath to get warm before rugging myself up again. I also used to get the low body temp too, at times it was below 36 degree celicus (but nowdays my temp is normal even thou I still have low blood volume).

    There was nothing i did which caused that symptom shift.. it just changed so cant really advise what shifted this symptom complex in me. (interestingly I had the temp thing going on around the same time as I had the pins and needles stuff.. so maybe it is a common ME symptom complex?).
    justy likes this.
  20. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    The situation has got much worse - arm numbness increasing every night until last night i could not sleep on my side at all. Everytime i fell asleep the arm of the side i was laying on went numb and woke me up - wether the arm was up or under my head or stretched down by my side. Must have woken up 20 times at least. Then i just clench and unclench my hand a few times and the feeling starts to come back.

    Tried sleeping on my back - which was torture, kep turning over in my sleep (have been sleeping on my side for years and years) It is worse on my favourite side. Also cannot always sleep flat on back because of problems with lungs.
    Yesterday and today a certain amount of pain stayed with me in the day, arms felt weak and if i lent slightly on them on the sofa, they would start to go numb straight away.

    I really need to sleep!!

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