Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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French research finding about aluminium in vaccines causing CFS

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Complex CFSer, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. Complex CFSer

    Complex CFSer

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    erin, ScottTriGuy and geraldt52 like this.
  2. NotThisGuy

    NotThisGuy Senior Member

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    Germany
    cant understand that much french.

    Is this a somewhat serious and trustworthy? or is the "journal Toxicology" more like pseudoscience?
    is it an actual new publications? seems from the last link like it is a meta analysis?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  3. Complex CFSer

    Complex CFSer

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    I didn't watch the whole thing, but it has English subtitles for the part I saw. I don't know about the source, but I do know that it's absolutely true that aluminium is a neurotoxin. I have also just seen this video (embedded in a blog post) which is (again) about autism, regarding the mast cell link to autism. BUT as part of that, he mentions chronic fatigue syndrome. So the hypothesis is that CFS, ASD and other difficulties could be triggered by aluminium whether that involves mast cells or not. https://www.athinkingpatient.com/mast-cell-activation-and-autism/
     
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    It's macrophagic myofasciitis (MMF) that the aluminum from vaccines causes. At this point we don't know if macrophagic myofasciitis is the same as ME/CFS, even though the symptoms are very similar. I have not seen any data showing that aluminum causes ME/CFS in the general case.

    And the timescale of appearance after vaccination of these two diseases are different: people who get ME/CFS after for example hepatitis B vaccination (the vaccine most linked to triggering ME/CFS) will typically experience the full symptoms of ME/CFS within days of the vaccination.

    However, when a vaccination triggers MMF, that disease manifests only after an average of 7 months (more info in this post).
     
    Hubris likes this.
  5. Complex CFSer

    Complex CFSer

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    It says here: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081118141856.htm

    "A team of scientists have investigated a case of vaccine-associated chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and macrophagic myofasciitis in an individual demonstrating aluminum overload."

    indicating that they are seen as two distinct conditions. Regarding data on aluminium and ME/CFS as well as timescales for onset:

    https://www.wellnessresources.com/news/vaccine-injury-with-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-and-fibromyalgia

    "The onset of symptoms of CFS or FM took anywhere from days to a year after the last vaccination. Forty-two percent of the patients took the full series of Hep B shots despite experiencing adverse effects while taking the shots."
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That particular article refers to a court case, in which it is proposed (not proven) "that the cause of the CFS in this individual was a heightened immune response, initially to the aluminium in each of the adjuvants and thereafter spreading to other significant body stores of aluminium."

    That's just someone's opinion, it's not providing any empirical evidence (derived from studies) that aluminium plays a role in ME/CFS. I am not saying it does not; I am just saying this does not provide any evidence.



    If you are perfectly healthy and then developed full-blown ME/CFS within days of a vaccination, without being exposed (as far as you can tell) to any other known triggers of ME/CFS such as infection, then it makes sense to attribute the likely cause of ME/CFS to the vaccine.

    But if you developed ME/CFS a year after vaccination, it is much harder to reliably ascribe the cause to the vaccination in this case. You might have just caught a virus in the meantime (you can catch a virus asymptomatically, without showing any acute symptoms), and that virus may have been the cause of your ME/CFS.
     
    Mel9 likes this.
  7. Complex CFSer

    Complex CFSer

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    There surely has to be a blood test to find out whether a virus or it's after-effects are present, to rule that out.

    For anyone interested I also found these:

    "Aluminum Toxicity: A misdiagnosed epidemic (Part 1)"
    http://proliberty.com/observer/20071207.htm

    "Tired or Toxic? Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Environmental Toxicity"
    http://www.ei-resource.org/articles...-fatigue-syndrome-and-environmental-toxicity/

    "Toxic Metals that Cause Fatigue"
    https://myersdetox.com/toxic-metals-that-cause-fatigue/

    "Metal Sensitivity & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome"
    https://hellolife.net/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-cfs/b/metal-sensitivity-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    According to the results of a poll, patients whose ME/CFS was triggered within a week of a vaccination often have active infections with viruses, just like the ME/CFS patients whose ME/CFS was triggered by a viral infection.

    Thus a blood test would not appear to distinguish between vaccine-onset ME/CFS and viral infection-onset ME/CFS (although very few people answered that poll, so its results may not be that reliable).
     
  9. Complex CFSer

    Complex CFSer

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    Is there any information on whether the viruses the vaccinated people had, were the viruses from the vaccination or different ones? Has anybody tested whether there is a correlation between which viruses or even types of virus?
     
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    For the viruses linked to ME/CFS (mainly coxsackievirus B, echovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6 and cytomegalovirus), there are no vaccinations currently available for them.

    In the future, vaccinations will hopefully be developed for these ME/CFS viruses, and I think we will then expect a dramatic reduction in the incidence of ME/CFS, once people are protected from these viruses by means of vaccination.
     
  11. Complex CFSer

    Complex CFSer

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    Interesting.

    "A study of 200 patients with Epstein-Barr Virus (often called Yuppie disease) is scheduled for publication this spring in the journal Medical Hypothesis. In an advance report in the San Diego Tribune (September 30. 1987). the study’s researchers have linked EBV syndrome to exposure to the weakened. but live, rubella virus found in the vaccine. Given to young children, the vaccine can linger in their systems for years and can be passed to adults through casual contact."

    http://vaccinetruth.org/epstein-barr.html

    "Lately I’ve been learning about Epstein Barr Virus (EBV). I learned a while back that if you have ever been diagnosed with mononucleosis, then you have EBV. As I began to learn about this nasty, stubborn virus, I realized that my story fit into the profile of EBV infection perfectly. As I began to dig deeper, I learned about the role vaccinations play in stealth virus infections, how those infections correlate with Lyme disease, and the co-infections that are common with these viruses."

    "I have learned that the MMR vaccine has been linked to EBV contamination. (source)"

    https://www.thefamilythathealstogether.com/how-vaccinations-ruined-my-health/

    It looks like there is a (experimental) vaccine for EBV: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-08/nioa-nev081115.php

    What is really concerning is the contamination in vaccines aside from toxins such as heavy metals, polysorbate-80, formaldehyde and other things. People like Judy Mikovits PhD have done a lot of work regarding this issue and apparently the various DNAs in vaccines (human, monkey and various others) contain retroviruses that insert into the host genome through a process of reverse transcriptase. Is it any wonder we are sick.
     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    What is "EBV syndrome"? I have never heard of that. It is not a scientific or medical term.

    And which study are they referring to? It does not say in the link.



    The person writing this does not appear to know that mononucleosis can sometimes be caused by cytomegalovirus. So having mononucleosis does not guarantee you have EBV.



    What does "EBV contamination" mean?



    Work on developing an EBV vaccine has been going on for years, but I understand that there are lots of technical difficulties to overcome.



    You get more mercury into your brain and bloodstream from a portion of tuna fish or restaurant sushi than you do from a vaccine. Yet people don't seem to be worried about eating tuna. Formaldehyde you are exposed to daily from various sources.

    There is no evidence that vaccines contain retroviruses. Mikovits is merely speculating, but has provided no evidence.
     
  13. Complex CFSer

    Complex CFSer

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    EBV syndrome I don't know you'd have to Google it, but I imagine the health symptoms you are left with as a result of EBV. The study you would have to Google also as I don't know.

    EBV contamination, means vaccines contaminated by EBV, vaccines are impure. Just going by what they said.

    Ingesting mercury is very different to injecting. The digestive system has ways of processing and filtering but if you inject something straight into the blood you have bypassed layers of filtering and polysorbate-80 is an emulsifier that transports the ingredients of a vaccine across the blood-brain barrier.

    There is evidence out there of retroviruses in vaccines and I believe Mikovits based her testimony on evidence not speculation. Simian virus 40 is just one.

    "Adventitious agents in viral vaccines: Lessons learned from 4 case studies"

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1045105614000748

    https://vaccineimpact.com/2015/vacc...blower-reveals-what-the-government-is-hiding/

    http://www.organiclifestylemagazine...trovirus-and-vaccine-connection-a-book-review

    http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Scientific_guideline/2009/09/WC500003676.pdf

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...3db-8c95-b1aea019d650/?utm_term=.31b2b90a55a3

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1860042.stm

    Then there is this: https://www.pharmaceutical-journal....n-regulator-challenges-study/20202318.article
     
  14. Complex CFSer

    Complex CFSer

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    "Aluminum From Vaccines vs Aluminum in Our Environment
    The administration of aluminum into vaccines is most commonly justified by the fact that a person usually accumulates more aluminum in their body each day simply by eating, but what people fail to take into account is that your body has a different method of flushing it out of your system. They body is very good at doing this, it was designed to do this, but when you inject aluminum as a vaccine adjuvant, it does not come into the same mechanism of excretion as it would, say, from the aluminum you accumulate in your body as a result of wearing deodorant.

    Injected aluminum does not enter the body or leave the body in the same way as environmental aluminum. It doesn’t come into the same mechanism of excretion, and that’s the whole point of adjuvants, they are meant to stick around and allow that antigen to be presented over and over again. It can’t be excreted because it must provide that prolonged exposure of the antigen to your immune system

    If it’s not being excreted by the body, then where does it go? A fairly recent study published in Frontiers of Neurology explains how this biopersistence—demonstrated by its “capacity to migrate in lymphoid organs and then disseminate throughout the body within monocyte-lineage cells and progressively accumulate in the brain”—is so troublesome.

    It also points out that, in spite of their long usage, the literature has pointed out that the adjuvanticity mechanisms of aluminum salts remain basically unknown despite most active investigation in the field in recent years.”

    http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2...n-its-injected-into-your-body-from-a-vaccine/
     
  15. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    It is not concerning at all for the 99.5% of the population that doesn't get CFS/ME, so these vaccines are absolutely not dangerous when we go by the numbers. The reason why 0.5% of the population develop CFS/ME might as well have nothing to do with vaccines at all. According to a recent study I read, CFS/ME is common in Africa as well, in places where vaccination rate is still low. We have no evidence at the given time to link vaccines to CFS/ME. It's just speculation and conspiracy theories. Even Gherardi (who is the only researcher you have linked to regarding alumininum) isn't talking about CFS/ME but about another syndrome (MMF), which I assume is much rarer than CFS/ME. His research seems interesting, but if I understood it correctly he has only performed mouse studies.

    Regarding EBV, close to 100% of the population has been infected with EBV and once you get EBV it stays forever in the body. So there is no such thing as EBV syndrome.
     
    percyval577 likes this.
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I did Google it, and it does not exist. So the person who used that phrase does not know what he or she is talking about. I'd suggest quoting reliable sources.



    SV40 is not a retrovirus, but rather from the polyomavirus genus. SV40 did pass to humans via vaccines in the 1950s, that fact is not disputed. But it is not a retrovirus.

    I am disputing your statement that vaccines contain retroviruses that are passed to humans. Where is the evidence for this? If you make statements like this, you need to provide the evidence.

    If Mikovits based her testimony on evidence, please cite the evidence. What are the published studies she is referring to which found this alleged retrovirus in vaccines?



    It's not very different: 95% of the methylmercury ingested when eating tuna will get absorbed into the bloodstream. See this post.
     
  17. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    I remember reading a while back that aluminum in brain tissue had links to Alzheimers.
     
    Sundancer likes this.

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