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Fred's B12 protocal 1 week in

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by minkeygirl, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    I was totally ignorant of how things needed to be taken and balanced when I started this. I just thought take the stuff. I was already taking a lot of the things in the protocol so I thought it would be easier to just add a few things.

    I started one pill at a time. First the Methyl B 5000 mcg which I had been taking but incorrectly. Had the initial good mood. Then I added Dibencozide 3000 mcg. All good. Then I added 800 mcg metafolin.

    I had no side effects and I felt a little less crazy. I had not supplemented with any potassium since I drink 8 oz coconut water a day and just started drinking tart cherry juice and I didn't know I needed to start that right away.

    Fred wrote me that I was in danger from no potassium supplementation so I grabbed some NuSalt which is potassium salt and drank the equivalence of 530 mgs. Now I feel kind of sluggish and foggy but that could just be because I've been reading or should I say trying to read threads on this. I ordered some 99 mg potassium tablet which I'll have tomorrow so I don't have a heart attack.

    I am so cognitively impaired that you can't dumb things down enough for me to understand them. I do think I understand that taking the B12 lowers my potassium so I have to supplement it. After that I am lost. As much as I try I just do not get it. I have yet to understand the metafolin or the dibencozide and how I should or should not feel.

    I just need to be some robot that someone tells me what to do. Anyway, just needed to talk about this. I'm easily confused.

    I'd appreciate your thoughts, but seriously, talk to me like I"m in the first grade, that is about all I can understand.
  2. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    Hang in there minkeygirl, you are trying and that is significant for so many who sturggle with these chronic illinesses. I would be interested in knowing more about how you were taking methyl B 12 5000 wrong, I am also taking that and no one gave me any instructions other than put under tongue.
    minkeygirl likes this.
  3. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    Well it's good that you had no real side effects from them.

    As Roxie says, are you taking the Dibencozide and methyl B12 in a slow dissolving fashion?

    Also are you taking both kinds of methyl B12? Freddd says you need both.

    Freddd says we need usually 2000-3000 mg Potassium a day.

    Are you taking the other basic supplements? From Freddd's post, these are also required for us to take:

    And then the next step is adding L-carnitine fumarate. Usually starting with a low dose.
  4. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    When I first got the Methyl B I would just let it dissolve under my tongue in about 10 minutes. Now I let it sit for at least 45 minutes right when I wake up since I had heard elsewhere it has to be on an empty stomach. I do the same with the dibencozide after I eat. Let it take 45 minutes.

    I had been taking all of the other supplements you mentioned (except the Vitamin E, already which is why I thought this might be easier for me, to just add a few more things. I have problems with a lot of things so I add them 1 at a time.

    I didn't understand I needed the potassium right off the bat which is why I didn't take it. Until I get what I ordered today I'm using some Nusalt but it is giving me a headache and I feel like crap. I feel a bit bloated but I have IBS-C so I'll just see. Hell, half the side effects from the protocol are things I already have.

    Thanks for the support. I really don't understand this no matter how many times I read it.

    Minks
  5. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    Most of us don't understand it. It seems like every time I reread, I learn something new, or I realize I forgot something, so I have something new to do.

    You should take the other methyl B12 if you aren't, and the vitamin E, and the real potassium. Then add the l-carnitine fumarate slowly. (There's two methyl B12 and the dibencozide and the metafolin.)
  6. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    @SOS, some things just never compute with me no matter how much I read. Maybe in a month something will sink in.

    What is the other Methyl B I need to take? I found out the protocol I'm using is old so I don't have the revised one yet with dosages, brands etc.

    I get the real potassium tomorrow or Wednesday. When I know the other MB I'll get that then I can add the E. I have Now Foods Gamma E is that the one preferred? But I need to see what is up with the potassium and my gut which is quite a mess right now. I have a problem with some things constipating me. Biotin did it, so did fish oil so I had to switch to chia seed oil capsules.

    If I can't get the potassium right then all of this goes down the drain.

    Thanks Sick.
  7. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    There is the Enzymatic Therapy brand mb12 and the Jarrow brand mb12. You have one of those brands?

    I am mostly relying on Freddd's post in this thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/active-b12-protocol-basics.10138/ I found the formatting very confusing but I think I have it straight now.

    Yes, he had linked to Now Foods brand Gamma E. But someone said that has soy, and preferred to get a different brand. Any brand Gamma E should work. I still don't have my Gamma E yet.

    For potassium, if you can afford it, probably best to drink coconut water or have other foods with the highest potassium. I am going to try a prescription slow-release potassium because I can't afford the food and it is trouble for me. There is a thread about the 99 mg pills having a small risk if you take many.
  8. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    I was using an early version of that protocol so I"ll print this one off. I think it needs to be cleaned up and just remove stuff that has folic acid. It would have saved me some money because I bought some things based on the list. Maybe dumb it down some.

    I am currently taking the Jarrow methyl B 5000 mcg, Dibencozide 300 mcg and metafoline 800 mcg. I just ordered a bottle of the Enzymatic THerapy which is not on my list at all. I got 30 from www.pureformulas.com for $7.46 less 10% using code NEXT10. Can I take both Methyl B's at the same time? I can just tuck them in when I first wake up in the morning

    I drink coconut water for my dry eyes and I am drinking tart cherry juice for something else so that is about 1000 mgs of potassium. The coconut water is just too expensive and there is too much sugar for my liking.

    I did order some of the 99 mgs potassium just to see about dosing and then I can get powder.

    Right now I am really cramped and bloated and this was after some of the Nusalt potassium so I'll see. Of late when I have a problem with something I take I get constipated and the only thing that helps is stopping it. I also feel groggy when I should be perking up some. I'm wondering if this is paradoxal folate deficiency?

    How are you doing with all this?
  9. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    I have taken them both at the same time, but I assume it's better not to, so they have more minutes of absorption.

    I think there is some coconut water that is 100% pure, nothing added. But it tastes bad to me. Different brands taste a little different. Coconut water is about 600 mg per cup. Tart cherry seems to be 200 mg per serving. I don't know how I will get enough potassium on my budget. The pills are too expensive.

    I don't know anything about the cramping and those symptoms.

    I still have to get some basics figured out. Calcium, gamma E.
  10. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    I'll have to figure out the timing of the B12.

    I got the pineapple coconut water which I am now drinking, the 8 oz size in the morning. I put my fiber in it and drink away. I have not tried the plain. I read that the tart cherry juice has the same amount of potassium as a medium banana. I'll have to look and see what else has potassium but I get my food delivered since I cannot shop so I have to supplement at some point.

    I found a really good price on potassium at iHerb. $2.12 for 100 and iHerb has free shipping if over $20. This is getting expensive. Here is the link:

    http://www.iherb.com/21st-Century-Health-Care-Potassium-99-mg-110-Tablets/41315

    For Calcium I already got the Nature's Way buffered C from Amazon Subscribe and save. A bottle of 250 caps is $9.94.

    http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-B...74&sr=8-1&keywords=natures way buffered C 500

    We can be B12 buddies!!
  11. rachel

    rachel

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    What's the reason for taking two kinds of B-12 and for taking L-carnitine? Does it consider as a safe protocol?​
  12. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Potassium Chloride, which is what is in nusalt, can be very hard on the gut if you don't use it with food. I've done it once and it was really really bad. I'd suggest you only use it with food.
  13. rachel

    rachel

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    Do all the kinds of methyl (methylmate b, methyl cobmalin b-12, msm, methyl folate..) lower the potassium in the same rate? What can be the reason to feel negative side effects expect from potassium rate?
    Suppose potassium is average or high, does it definitely contradict the guess (I mean can someone still has negative symptoms even if the basic potassium is average/high due to other implications of lowering the potassium?)

    I don't intend to take artificial potassium so fast but I'm also curious to know if the potassium suppose to upper the electrolytes and if so, why don't you take the electolytes?
  14. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Rachel.

    I'm not sure that I completely understand your questions, but here is some information that I hope will help:

    I believe that the reason for the need for more potassium on these treatments is that increasing the folate levels in the cells helps them to make new DNA and RNA, which allows them to divide to form new cells. The new cells need potassium, because it is the main positive ion inside all cells. People with ME/CFS are low in potassium to start with, because their membrane ion pumps are not able to get enough ATP to power them, because of the mitochondrial dysfunction that is caused by glutathione depletion and the partial methylation cycle block. So when they start making new cells, their blood potassium level tends to decrease, and it is important not to let it get too low, because it affects the heartbeat and other vital functions of the body.

    When B12 and folate are taken together, the B12 will help to hold the folates inside the cells by stopping the methyl trap mechanism and lowering the level of peroxynitrite, which breaks down methylfolate. So the combination of B12 and folate will raise the folate levels in the cells, and that will produce a greater demand for potassium.

    Potassium is one of the electrolytes in the blood. Others are sodium, magnesium, calcium, and the negative ions that balance them, such as chloride, bicarbonate, sulfate, and others.

    There are other possible reasons for increased symptoms when starting this type of protocol. One is that it initially tends to lower glutathione still more. I have suggested that boosting glutathione with liposomal or acetyl glutathione may help. Another possibility is that the protocol improves the function of the detoxication system and the immune system, and this can result in mobilization of toxins before they are excreted, or die-off of pathogens. I think that problems can also be caused by deficiencies in other vitamins or minerals that are needed by this part of the metabolism.

    Best regards,

    Rich

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