Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by cman89, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    This is a diet question, but I figured it would be more likely to be seen in this section, so here goes: Obviously diet is crucial in the healing of all disease, no matter what. However, CFS is in part, a disease of energy metabolism, and in my case, faitigue is my worst symptom, hence my main target for healing. The more research I do, I find that a low carb, paleo type diet is the ideal for overall health, however I recognize that one can eat tons of veggies on both a high carb and low carb diet, and I have tried periods of low carb in the past, before and after the sickness, and I have always crashed in energy after five days or so. Hence, my intake of the not actually healthy whole grains has remained a bit high. I would love to habitate myself to a lower carb diet, but I hate the energy reduction and the fluid loss. Is it just a situation of needing to get past the first hump? How many of you have seen an increase in energy with this change?
     
  2. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    That is because the general populations diet style uses carbohydrates as its main fuel source, this is not what you want and is not ideal for optimal health. Fats are the ideal energy source and most chemically supportive for all the processes of the body. People go into paleo style diets bump up protein and fats and mention similar issues. Its not that you need to go super low carb either. A high fat, moderate protein, moderate carb diet seems to work well for most. Keep in mind the sources of fats, and proteins is also important. It needs to be varied and there are different amino acid for proteins that are important to supply based on foods, fats are important to balance poly unsaturated, and monounsaturated fats, omega 3 to omega 6 fatty acid profile balancing, also carbs really depend on the person, most paleo style diet emphasize getting it from fruits and vegetables as the main source though. There is a kind of transition period for anyone as the body accumulates to a new and more stable energy source, rather then spiking and dropping glucose levels all day to cue metabolism.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
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  3. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    I am more than convinced on the science end here, so that doe snot need to be reinforced with me, its just as I wrote, personal experience has shown me that my energy does tank when trying the low carb stuff, as I have never had blood glucose issues, at least that I know of. Probably got a majorly dysbiotic gut though. Ideally, I would do some sort of detox, then tray to transition again to a lower carb plan. Is it truly a reverse bell curve effect ? In that we initially lose energy, then regain it once the sugar is cleared out? (this is all relative, of course, with energy in ME being quite depleted anyway)
     
  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Again you don't need to go very low carb, you can use moderate carbs, its the source of the carbs which is important. When I mentioned glucose levels spiking for metabolism I am not really basing it on insulin resistance, its hard to sum up in a few sentences. Check out this article for more info on that.

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/a-me...at-carbs-human-body-metabolism/#axzz3Gyc80wym

    It is a reverse bell curve but that depends if you are meeting your dietary needs, I don't know a food log of what you eat or transitioned to on a day to day basis. If you are having reactive hypoglycemia and that is causing a higher need for carbs then you might want to make sure you stay well covered on that. It can be a common co morbid occurrence in some chronic health conditions. It isn't about de toxing sugars or anything as much, just letting your body adapt to a new diet. Any changes in your diet will usually cause some degree of symptoms at least for a short while. What is important is the changes you make are all for the better, that your new diet is highly various and covers all the basic vitamins and minerals you need.

    I hope that helps!

    edit* There are a lot of things that I do not agree with in that article, the only point I wanted to show was switching from carbs to fat for optimal muscle fuel. He is really pushing on a very low carb diet but that is not necessary for all, I used to push up to 450g+ a day while body building they don't really talk account of activity levels and other variables for their graphs and theories.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  5. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    Actually, my main problem was in the past I would have my energy tank in the Gym, plus a lot of water loss, so I never kept up the lower carb stuff. Carbs kept my squats high, you know :) Now, ugh, I am more willing to take drop in energy in the short term if I can regain it later, for the better. Also, I love me some MDA. Havent been on the site for a while though...
     
  6. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Yeah I understand that, I would always try and boost glycogen storage for huge work outs. I would be sure to talk to your doctor before ongoing with that though. You want to rule out any reasons that maybe a lowered carb intake would not benefit you as much. I mean I doubt there is something like porphyria going on which would warrant a good amount of carbs pulsed in the diet among other things. Anyways I would talk to a nutritionist in the least. Make sure that you are getting what you need with the changes in your diet, rather then just taking things out without replacing it with other nutrient sources. Just looking into your over all diet in a way to make sure you have bases covered.

    Edit*

    I saw your other post recently and thought it was worth mentioning b12, have you ever had your levels checked or are you taking any sublingual b12? A lot of those symptoms could be from a b12 deficiency which is important to treat asap.
     
  7. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    Oh I am very cognizant of nutrient intake. It s more a case for me of low carb with full nutrients vs high carb with full nutrients. I just feel that my gut would be far better off with lower carb/high fat, my main concern is energy drop. And porphyria, I dunno on that
     
  8. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    I just wanted to point out that this has yet to be proven and may not be proven. It's just one of many ideas and may not even be a secondary part of the disease. We need more research.

    In my case, I eat quite a lot of carbs and quite a lot of protein. But there are lots of things I can't eat. My diet is mainly dictated to me by food intollerances now. A lot if people with the disease have gut problems. In my case my gut used to be fine early on but then got a lot worse along with dysbiosis. So I think it's a good idea to eat as healthily as possible and avoid any diet that would stress your body in any way.
     
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  9. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    I doubt porphyria is a concern I was just mentioning it as an example. Anyways you should look into testing your b12 and get some strong probiotics like VSL 3 for your gut. Just transition slowly and go by how you feel. Don't ever drop too much at one time, and make sure not to go so low it feels like you are more sickly. Just at least changing the main source of carbs or eating less refined carbs and sugars can help at first.
     
  10. JAM

    JAM Jill

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    Have you tried an elimination diet? It takes forever, mine lasted about a year, but it will tell you what your body thrives on and what you need to avoid. Every body is so different that an elimination diet is the only thing I trust to be accurate.
     
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  11. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    It's true, well worth doing. Mine told me that what my gut wanted was pretty much the opposite of what my dietician told me I should do. I wish I had done it earlier and was stricter as I was probably causing more damage than I realised. Until it became more obvious. It does take AGES though. I'm about 9 months in I guess and don't think I'll be done after a year. My diet is much healthier than it's ever been.
     
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  12. CantThink

    CantThink Senior Member

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    I agree about the elimination diet.

    I went through identifying and sorting out my allergies and intolerances over a period of a few years.

    I had to eventually accept I'd have to eat meat again in order to be able to avoid what I could no longer eat. As a result I've found myself experimenting with low carb high fat and Paleo.

    The first time I did low carb high fat, it made me worse as I was struggling with hypothyroidism. This time around I've found it much easier as the thyroid is under more control. I also quickly realised that very low carb does not work for me as it left me feeling very weak. I am better at between 35 to 80 grams of carbs. I aim for around 50. I do eat a little dark chocolate, sweet potato, sometimes a bit of high fibre gluten free bread, high fibre gluten free crackers and so on - it's minimal but including this has helped me a lot, a bit like when I was detoxing on other diets/plans and needed to slow it down.

    I focus on what leaves me feeling better and my daily intake being between 70% to 75% fat. I'm slowly developing my own diet by abandoning the foods and combinations that do nothing for me or make me worse.
     
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  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That's a bit far fetched.
     
  14. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    Nope. It makes perfect sense. Re-read it. I never wrote that diet can automatically heal all disease w/o other intervention. I wrote that it is crucial in healing, meaning you need to give your body the proper tools to speed up healing, that includes anti-inflammatory food + enough calories, at minimum.
     
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  15. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I don't know how common this is for pwcs but I don't have the digestive enzymes I need anymore. My cdsas showed that I'm low on elastase but I'm not sure what other digestive enzymes I'm missing. I take various Enzymedica enzymes with everything I eat because food will simply sit in my stomach otherwise.

    I was 99% paleo for 5 years (2008-12/2013) but never had the energy my body requires for exerting myself. (This is totally new and I'm still experimenting but ... I recently found that acorn and spagetti squash mixed with pintos (Mexican :) ) are helping me feel satiated for several hours. No other food or food combo has worked like this. Not brown rice, quinoa, zuchinni, etc. Not additional fats or protein. No combo of anything. Nada. )

    I also have hyperinsulinemia tho so I'm not getting the glucose I need. I have to use glucose tablets (cvs DYE FREE dex 4 only) to go for walks, run errands, do laundry, etc. I can't think at all without these. Learning this significantly improved my cognitive abilities. And I'll use appr 25 mg of caffeine if needed too. Dr Myhill explains how the caffeine boost works.

    I'm pro elimination diet too. The tendency to develop food intolerances hasn't stopped for me. After 9 years I just gave up eggs again. Sigh ... this could be from eating more gf processed foods since Jan 2014. Doh !

    Tc .. x
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
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  16. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Have you looked the Perfect Health Diet macronutrient recommendations?
     
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    There are numerous treatments for diseases that work perfectly well without the patient making any changes to diet, so therefore diet is not crucial for healing in many cases.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
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  18. WillowJ

    WillowJ คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl

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    I should try enzymes again. Maybe that would help.

    I do enjoy pinto beans, especially refried, but I can't eat any legumes right now. So sad.
     
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  19. JAM

    JAM Jill

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    Have you tried sprouting them before cooking? That is the only way I can eat them. You have to let them soak until they grow tails.
     
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  20. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Definitely worth trying. I couldn't eat without them. I tried several and only the enzymedica brand works for me. I eat papaya, mangoes and pineapple too but they don't work as well as enzymedica.

    Why can't you eat beans ?

    I just discovered Bean Assist. Doh ! Those really help with beans.

    Tc . X
     
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