The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Folinic Acid

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Banana94, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    Hey all

    RichvanK suggest to take folinic acid as 5-formyltetrahydrofolat. Is there a product you can recommend for ex. On iHerb? I can only find 5-METHYLtetrahydrofolat
     
  2. Marc_NL

    Marc_NL Senior Member

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  3. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    Thx marc
    Did you try it?
     
  4. Marc_NL

    Marc_NL Senior Member

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    Yes, I'm taking one per day.
    I take this form since I don't tolerate Methyl Folate.

    I haven't tried other brands so I can't compare.
    It's hard to say which symptoms it influences but I do generally feel better while taking it.
     
  5. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    Do you tolerate other methyl- supplement like methylcobalamin?
    I also poorly tolerate Methylfolat.. I think i have to try the Folinic acid?
    Did you start with full dose? Or slowly?
     
  6. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I also cannot tolerate even a micro toothpick dose of Methyl Folate or M-B12 and I recently started on a new supplement by "Seeking Health" that is Hydroxy B-12 and Folinic Acid. It's only been two days but so far, no reaction of any kind. I started with the full dose and it's a tiny lozenge that is sublingual. I was hesitant b/c it has "natural cherry flavor" but I did not react to it whatsoever and so far I recommend it highly :thumbsup:.
     
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  7. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I also recommend it highly as well.

    I didn't tolerate methylfolate well at all -- unless I took it in very tiny doses occasionally -- but find folinic acid very beneficial. It actually helps me sleep better, almost too well. I've slept through loud clock-radio alarms, sometimes for 45 minutes. So I usually only take it about an hour or two before bed.

    I get the Kirkman's brand.
     
  8. Marc_NL

    Marc_NL Senior Member

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    Two years ago I couldn't, now I can. I'm not sure it's because I really tolerate it better or if it's because I take an other form now.
    I take the adenosyl/methyl combo B12 oil from b12oils now, there are some threads about it, here's one:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/transdermal-b12-oils.33172/
    I daily take one dose of hB12 and since two weeks added one dose of aB12/mB12 and I seem to do good on it.

    In my case the Folinic works much smoother.
    First I broke the tablets in pieces and started with 200 mcg, then 400 mcg, now I take the whole tablet.

    Same here but like I wrote above I do tolerate the mB12/aB12 oil, maybe because the mB12 is combined with aB12 or maybe because the intake is slower compared to tablets/sublinguals.

    Methyl Folate is still a problem (I recently tried it again) so I stick to the Folinic.
     
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  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I'm in need to take some form of folate to treat anemia.

    Folic acid - its effect seems worse than glutamate - the other day I ate food with glutamate and got atopic dermatitis as I always get from MSG. From supplementing Folic Acid I got "sleeping in strange positions", had to sleep on my belly in swastika position which I hate and got up with a stiff neck. I used to sleep a lot on my belly when I still ate food fortified with Folic Acid until 2013.

    Methylfolate - can't tolerate even the smallest dose (brain toxic/anxiety)

    Folinic Acid - I tolerate it well, but I am not sure it is good for anemia after reading the following:
    Does anyone understand it? @alicec ?
     
  10. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    The supplement that I take has Hydroxo B-12 and Folinic Acid and I have not had any problems with it and it corrected my anemia. I didn't understand the links you cited re: it not being good for anemia?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
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  11. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    @alicec will be able to explain it concisely, but from what I could understand, the key word is 'enhances'. The cancer drug inhibits the enzyme, but folinic helps that inhibition.
     
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  12. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    I happened to be on this forum today - don't come here so often any more, prefer the other one.

    This effect of folinic acid (actually it is a downstream metabolite which does the deed) happens only in combination with 5FU. With the normal substrate for the enzyme, dUMP, there is no inhibition.

    5FU is deliberately being used to interfere with the action of the enzyme to reduce DNA synthesis and hence interfere with proliferation of cancer cells (of course it interferes with normal cells also). It binds to the enzyme just like dUMP but the modified structure means that it gets stuck there and gums up the enzyme.

    The folinic metabolite is the natural one carbon donor for this reaction. Once it has bound to the enzyme it just enhances the binding of 5FU to the enzyme and gumming it up.

    There should be no problem with taking folinic if it suits you.

    It is a storage form of folate. The enzyme MTHFS converts it to 5,10 methenyl THF which feeds into the folate cycle and can be used in various ways, depending on what is required by the cell.

    I have uploaded a diagram to illustrate the main pathways. Folinic is 5 formyl THF.

    Note the diagram implies that vegetable folates are like DHF. This is not true. They are mainly methylfolate and to a lesser extent, folinic.
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I know nothing about anything but wanted to confirm that Folinic Acid is a good option for those of us who cannot tolerate methyl versions and that there is nothing dangerous about taking it along w/Hydroxo B-12 for anemia/low B-12.
     
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  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    @alicec Thank you so much for the clarification! Please do not forget us dummies over here! :D

    I am also concerned by the fact that I have multiple +/+ MTHFR SNPs (incl 1298 which was enough to give me spina bifida occulta) & +/+ MTHFS rs6495446 . But since Folinic is the only tolerable form for me, what can I do, right? I always make sure to take enough magnesium with it.
     
  15. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    You can always go over there too!

    Some folate supplementation would be wise with a number of MTHFR SNPs but I wouldn't worry too much about them. There are only two of the common ones that have any effect - C677T and A1298C. These certainly do slow the enzyme, especially the first, but many millions of people live with these natural variant with no ill effect.

    Modest folate supplementation is sufficient to overcome the risk issues that ensue when increased demand is placed on folate such as during pregnancy. Folinic is fine if that is the form you tolerate.

    There is no real evidence that the MTHFS SNP does anything, just a couple of very old association studies which have never been followed up. These kinds of associations, which were enthusiatically reported in the early days, have almost invariably disappeared in subsequent studies using sufficient numbers and adequate statistics. No follow up for these studies suggests that these associations mean very little. Nor does the SNP change the protein produced by the variant gene so I don't think there anything at all to worry about here.
     
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