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Folic acid and folinic acid can block metafolin inducing deficiency called "ddtox"

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Freddd, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi dnholmes,

    I can't find the one you mean. All I'm finding is one missing thiamin and with folic acid.
    http://sportsnutritiononline.com/vitamins-minerals/b-complex/aor-advanced-b-complex-90-cap.html

    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size1Capsule
    Servings Per Container90
    Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
    B2(Riboflavin-5-Phosphate) 2.5mg 147%
    B3(Niacin - From Inositol Hexanicotinate) 115mg 575%
    B6(Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate) 33mg 1,650%
    Folic Acid 333mcg 83%
    B12(Methylcobalamin) 333mcg 5,550%
    Biotin 166mcg 55%
    B5(Pantethine) 100mcg 1,000%
    Benfotiamine 33mcg
    Choline(Bitartrate) 200mg
    Inositol(Inositol, Inositol Hexanicotinate) 128mg
    Daily Value not established

    Also at 3 caps per day it is almost $1/day which is a lot for a relatively low potency b complex without thiamin and with folic acid.
  2. JPV

    JPV Senior Member

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    Excerpts from: Scientists Question Folic Acid Fortification

  3. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Great find JPV

    Thanks for that link JPV -- seems to confirm what we've been discussing...

    "It could take 20 years for any potential harmful effects of unmetabolised folic acid to become apparent."

    Makes sense, and certainly rings a bell for me.
  4. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Thanks JPV - great article! Like danny said, that fits in perfectly with everything Freddd has been presenting here. It's amazing with all the so-called advancements the medical community claims that they don't even really understand something as basic and fundamental as folate metabolism.
  5. aprilk1869

    aprilk1869 Senior Member

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    I see that they are now being sold on iherb.

    The capsules don't contain thiamin but they do contain Benfotiamine which is claimed to be better quality. Also, the folic acid is 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate. I'm not sure whether this is as good as Metafolin by Merck or not.

    The AOR product might be more expensive but if it means you don't have to take so much in the way of Metafolin maybe it will work out as good value. Also, I'm not convinced that 3 capsules are needed. Maybe 2 would be OK.

    I haven't done much research on all the forms of B vitamins in this formula but I have had a look at Niacin-from Inositol Hexanicotinate and came across this:-

  6. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    Oeee that one looks great!! It doesn't have pyridoxine !!!
    Eta: I see it has folic. I'm going to design my multi at www.customcapsule.com without folic, ribo and b6 and will take thornes methylguard on the side (has methylfolate, p5p and active riboflavin )
  7. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Hi Freddd, as aprilk1869 points out, it is available at iHerb now also. B1 as benfotiamine and folate as methylfolate. This seems to be the most accurate label, not sure if they changed or are changing formulation but I'll order and find out. Video confirmation here.

    * Just noticed that on iHerb you can view the ingredients and zoom in to confirm. *
  8. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    I believe Merck holds the patent on methyltetrahydrofolate, so they would have to be using theirs. Same for Life Extension's Optimized Folate. But I may be mistaken.

    That's correct, inositol does not have the effect on lipoproteins that niacin does.
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jpy,

    Don't you love being at the wrong end of those "inherent risks"? Since it not only not effective in some people but can actually cause a paradoxical folate deficiency that sure ups the risk factor.

    If 50% of people taking vitamin C got scurvy any way, we wouldn't think Vit C was very effective. Yet in cobalamins and folates these relatively ineffective inactive forms are used that leave people stranded, hung out to dry indefinitely with mysterious diseases because they don't recognize folate and b12 deficiency symptoms while taking the inactive vitamin forms. They say "impossible" and dismiss it from their minds. They become apologists for inactive forms that make some people sick.
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi David,

    I believe Merck holds the patent on methyltetrahydrofolate

    Actually they hold the patent for making a stable form of said methylfolate called Metafolin, and it is always licensed as Metafolin and they have very strict and limited licensing requirements upholding pharmaceutical quality. Anything that isn't specifically "Metafolin" is not made by Merck and is not the stable form they invented.
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    It's a different product than the other one. However, their ingredients list specifies "folic acid" as the mfolate made by someone and they are not the same and have left out the pantethine from the description above it and clearly that page needs some debugging as it is self contradictory.

    http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Research-Basic-B-Complex-60-Veggie-Caps/18791?at=0

    Here is a Thorne B-complex but with mix of calcium folinate with the mfolate.

    I'm still looking for possible candidates.

    http://www.metafolin.com/about-metafolin/properties-a-benefits
    Metafolin is the body's preferred form of folate, because it is...

    ...the naturally-occurring predominant form of the folate vitamer [​IMG]
    ...a readily bioavailable folate vitamer (folic acid is a provitamin and needs to be activated) [​IMG]
    ...directly usable by the body, independent of genetic variants of folate dependent enzymes [​IMG]
    ...directly involved in lowering homocysteine blood levels [​IMG]
    ...the only form of folate able to cross the blood-brain barrier [​IMG]
    ...safe as demonstrated by extensive toxicological studies [​IMG]
    ...a proprietary ingredient, produced and marketed by Merck Eprova AG, Switzerland, only [​IMG]
    ...apart from folic acid the only folate source approved in the U.S. and Europe [​IMG]

    In addition, Metafolin apparently does not mask a vitamin B12-deficiency [​IMG] and presents no risk of an accumulation of unmodified folic acid in the body. [​IMG]
  12. aprilk1869

    aprilk1869 Senior Member

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    I think we should all contact Jarrow Formulas and ask them to update their B-Right with Metafolin. I bet they could lose quite a bit of business when you consider how many people here and on the wrong diagnosis forum are concerned about synthetic folic acid.
  13. drex13

    drex13 Senior Member

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    Freddd,
    Heres a link to a B-complex from Douglas labs. It has metafolin and mb-12. No folic or folinic acid. Might be a good option.

    https://douglaslabs.com/product.cfm?litm=200765-60X
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Yes, It has some good points. It's doses of individual items is more B-50 like which is not the best balance and it doesn't have inositol or pantethine. So far they all have some deficiencies. I will definitely conside may this once a day and B-right once a day cutting the folic acid window down to 4 hours.
  15. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Kurt -- doesn't magnesium require one of the b-vitamins in order to 'get into' (?) the cells or to work properly?

    d.
  16. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Dan I'm not sure of all the technical aspects. I often see Mag/B6 advised together in reference to autism treatment.
    But it might pay to be careful with the chloride - it's good stuff, but effective. I took some (oil) on it's own a month or so ago and the results were not good! Now with B6 (I'm using Solgar) on board, and a more gradual build up of dosage, I'm able to tolerate the effect. Go slow :)))
    Anne.
  17. JPV

    JPV Senior Member

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    How does this look to you? The ratios seem the same as Jarrow's and the price is right, $8.36 for 100 tablets.


    Freeda - B-Complex, No Folic-No Paba - 100 Tabs


  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi JPV,

    Thankyou for keeping your eyes open, I can't even consider this one. It has too few components and the wrong forms. Further it almost certainly has cyanocbl in it for the b12, and while minimal amount, the more of this I've eliminated from my diet the better I do.

    I might end up doing all separates though I would rather not.
  19. JPV

    JPV Senior Member

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    Here's another one. It looks to be manufactured in the UK and I'm afraid there might be some difficulty importing it. The dosages also look a bit high to me.


    BioCare B-Plex (Without Vitamin B12 & Folic Acid)

    Interesting to note that there is mention of this product being intended for those with problems related to high levels of histamine. I've read elsewhere that folic acid and B12 raise histamine. Any thoughts on this Freddd?
  20. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    I don't know about the B, thought it was the other way, that some B vitamins require magnesium. Anyway, methylation requires magnesium. And some chronic infections (such as Lyme-related), deplete magnesium, spirochetes use magnesium rather than iron like most other bugs. So we may be losing magnesium chronically and need regular supplements just due to a wierd infection load.

    I was told by a integrated med doctor years ago that many forms of magnesium require choline to get in cells. Some people take choline citrate along with magnesium. But most people have adequate choline. However, magnesium chloride seems to absorb well on its own, and also seems to help the digestion (probably the chloride ions support digestive HCl production).

    Why not make your own? Compounding can't be that difficult. Just buy the powders, measure and mix, put in capsules, etc.

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