Folate - What does this symptom mean?

[Seven7]

OK so I am stablished with the b12, Using undertongue methyl and so far I am happy (I have been for months on shots and swtich to subilingual) and doing ok.
But everytime I try folate, I get the most horrible brain fog and I mean I cannot even function brain fog. I have tried lowering, stopping, increasing.. Is it possible that I just don't need it at all?? I do a lot of vegetables.


++ MAO-A R297R, BHMT-02, BHMT-08
+- VDR Bsm, VDR Taq, MTRR K350A, AHCY-01, AHCY-19, MTHFR A1298C
Protocol: OI = Midodrine, Florinef, Antiviral: Famvir. Sleep: Trazadone. Supp: FishOil,C, CQ10

 

[minkeygirl]

Folate or methylfolate? How much? Also are you supplementing with potassium?

 

[ahmo]

An addition to the points raised by @minkeygirl It's possible that the folate is pushing your histamine response, as MAO++ is susceptible to histamines, which can cause brain symptoms. If you're very fortunate, maybe you're correct, you're able to use the folinic form in vegetables.

 

[Seven7]

I have tried both. Methylfolate and Folinic acid (folapro) 800mg tops. I started with one quarter of a pill, then went up all the way to one but the higher the worse the BF.

Another thing, I get heart pain when I do b12 for a while, I started having angina pain from methylb12 I am not taking that much 1,000mg to 2g under the tongue spray form from Enlander supplements.

I struggle with Histamine a lot and allergy to foods, weather......

 

[Critterina]

@Inester7, only your MTHFR A1298C would indicate that you might want to use methylfolate. That would be for neurotransmitter issues like depression, anxiety, etc. If you're happy in general, and I were you, I wouldn't put myself through the brain fog. I don't see how it could be helping.

I thought that those of us with only +- MTHFR A1298C (not C677T) could get benefit from folinic acid just as much as methylfolate, but I've come to question that. So for me, the jury is still out. Could you tell any difference?

I've never heard of angina caused by MB12 supplements. Does it go away when you stop them? That's something I'll have to remember.

I have one more question. Have you tested your homocysteine? If it turns out it's high (and it might not, as I think the MTRR K350A isn't as drastic an impairment as the MTRR A66G, but I could be wrong on that), they say that TMG helps. Have you tried TMG? I wouldn't try it without a high homocysteine lab, though. And it might not be good for you, given your other (MAO and ACAT) genetics. I was just wondering.

Best of health!
Crit

 

[Seven7]

@Inester7, only your MTHFR A1298C would indicate that you might want to use methylfolate. That would be for neurotransmitter issues like depression, anxiety, etc. If you're happy in general, and I were you, I wouldn't put myself through the brain fog. I don't see how it could be helping.

I thought that those of us with only +- MTHFR A1298C (not C677T) could get benefit from folinic acid just as much as methylfolate, but I've come to question that. So for me, the jury is still out. Could you tell any difference?

I've never heard of angina caused by MB12 supplements. Does it go away when you stop them? That's something I'll have to remember.

I have one more question. Have you tested your homocysteine? If it turns out it's high (and it might not, as I think the MTRR K350A isn't as drastic an impairment as the MTRR A66G, but I could be wrong on that), they say that TMG helps. Have you tried TMG? I wouldn't try it without a high homocysteine lab, though. And it might not be good for you, given your other (MAO and ACAT) genetics. I was just wondering.

Best of health!
Crit

I have some but Have not tried (TMG) but remind me again how would this help? for Brain fog???
2) I am 100% sure is the b12 causing the Angina happens EVERY SINGLE TIME and we are talking about a few times a year for the past 7. When I go high in serum the Angina pain starts. If you google b12 and heart attack you will see too much b12 is possible but usually with Shots.

 

[Critterina]

I have some but Have not tried (TMG) but remind me again how would this help? for Brain fog???
2) I am 100% sure is the b12 causing the Angina happens EVERY SINGLE TIME and we are talking about a few times a year for the past 7. When I go high in serum the Angina pain starts. If you google b12 and heart attack you will see too much b12 is possible but usually with Shots.

Hmmm, that's really interesting! (sorry it's interesting at your expense!) I'm surprised you keep taking it. How do you feel it's helping?

The TMG helps as follows: There are two paths to convert homocysteine to methionine. One path uses methylB12 and the MTR enzyme and converts methylfolate (MTHF) to THF by stealing the methyl group from the folate and putting it on the homocysteine (I may be oversimplifying, but bear with me.) The second path steals the methyl group from TMG and puts it on the homocysteine. That path relies on the BHMT enzyme, and the 08 mutation makes it work less well. You have that mutation, but could force the enzyme to work harder by giving it TMG.

I don't see any reason why your folate cycle should have trouble making the first path work, particularly since you are supplementing MB12. So chances are, your homocysteine is just fine (elevated is considered a bad thing, associated with disease.) Thus no reason to take TMG.

I'm thinking this: If taking MB12 causes brain fog and badness, it could be because it's making the methyl cycle turn. If that's the case, taking TMG might do the same thing (brain fog and badness). But if MB12 is causing brain fog because it's making the biopterin cycle turn, it's because it's messing with your neurotransmitters directly, then TMG might not create the same brain fog. Interesting problem! The thing that complicates it is, some of the products of the methyl cycle (SAMe, for instance) also contribute to the neurotransmitters.

So, let me be clear that I'm not suggesting that you take the TMG, but if you decide to try it, please let me know what happens. Also, have you ever used SAMe? (Also not suggesting that you try it.) Have you had a serum amino acid panel done? Sorry all this is more curiosity than helpful. It would be interesting to figure out what is going on with you, but I'm not sure it would lead to any recommendations that might make you feel better.

 

[Seven7]

@Critterina , Have you had a serum amino acid panel done? no
I will try TMG some day, right now I am ok so don't want to mess up my upswing.
I have not tried SAme, I am lucky I get mad but never in the sad side. More like mood swings from Very happy (when little symptoms) to mad and short tempered.

 

[Critterina]

@Critterina , Have you had a serum amino acid panel done? no
I will try TMG some day, right now I am ok so don't want to mess up my upswing.
I have not tried SAme, I am lucky I get mad but never in the sad side. More like mood swings from Very happy (when little symptoms) to mad and short tempered.

I'm with you on not messing up your upswing!

 

[Phred]

I have tried both. Methylfolate and Folinic acid (folapro) 800mg tops. I started with one quarter of a pill, then went up all the way to one but the higher the worse the BF.

I just wanted to point out that folapro is not folinic acid. It is 5-L methyltetrahydrofolate; the same as solgar. Unless they have a different product, I didn't see it.

As for the heart pain I get that too when I'm low on potassium. That one is dangerous. I know I have to get some potassium pretty quick when that happens. I try not to let the hypokalemia get that bad, but sometimes it just catches up to me.