Folate vs. Folic acid

[garyfritz]

Interesting... I was having a not-great night last night. Jangled nerves, borderline twitching, crazy-making RLS, couldn't sleep. From about 12:30 to 2:30 I tried some sublingual mB12, sublingual adoB12, and another shot of ado/methyl oil (my 4th for the day). The sublinguals didn't do much, the oil helped a little, but I was still going nuts.

Then I remembered I took my son out for pizza last night: deep dish, thick crust, big fat rolled edge on the crust, and I inhaled half a large pizza. I've cut way back on bread products, and that's more bread than I usually eat in a week. I wondered if the @#%@#!! folic acid in the flour caused a problem... so I took 800mcg of methyl folate (in my gumline, to absorb quicker). Within 3-4 minutes I started getting the "aahhhhh" reaction I usually associate with B12, with muscles relaxing and tension draining out of my body. It didn't 100% clear up the problem, but it helped enough that I could fall asleep.

So apparently methyl folate must have a much more direct effect on my symptoms than I realized. (I don't think it used to, because just mB12 alone used to calm my symptoms.)

And apparently folic acid can block the methyl folate, just like @Freddd says. But a good shot of methyl folate seemed to overcome the folic acid. Does that sound right?

I thought ALL flour in the US had added folic acid, but I think I was wrong. I have some King Arthur flour that doesn't list folic acid, but I don't know if they're required to list it. I have some bread (Dave's Killer Bread, great stuff) that says it has only 3% of folic acid RDA per slice. That would be 12mcg, and the FDA requires roughly 20mcg added folic acid per slice (40mcg per 100g), so I suspect the "folic acid" in the bread is natural folate from the wheat itself.

So apparently the added folic acid is only in "enriched" flour, and if you're careful you can find bread products without it. But assume restaurants/etc probably use enriched-flour products.

 

[Freddd]

Interesting... I was having a not-great night last night. Jangled nerves, borderline twitching, crazy-making RLS, couldn't sleep. From about 12:30 to 2:30 I tried some sublingual mB12, sublingual adoB12, and another shot of ado/methyl oil (my 4th for the day). The sublinguals didn't do much, the oil helped a little, but I was still going nuts.

Then I remembered I took my son out for pizza last night: deep dish, thick crust, big fat rolled edge on the crust, and I inhaled half a large pizza. I've cut way back on bread products, and that's more bread than I usually eat in a week. I wondered if the @#%@#!! folic acid in the flour caused a problem... so I took 800mcg of methyl folate (in my gumline, to absorb quicker). Within 3-4 minutes I started getting the "aahhhhh" reaction I usually associate with B12, with muscles relaxing and tension draining out of my body. It didn't 100% clear up the problem, but it helped enough that I could fall asleep.

So apparently methyl folate must have a much more direct effect on my symptoms than I realized. (I don't think it used to, because just mB12 alone used to calm my symptoms.)

And apparently folic acid can block the methyl folate, just like @Freddd says. But a good shot of methyl folate seemed to overcome the folic acid. Does that sound right?

I thought ALL flour in the US had added folic acid, but I think I was wrong. I have some King Arthur flour that doesn't list folic acid, but I don't know if they're required to list it. I have some bread (Dave's Killer Bread, great stuff) that says it has only 3% of folic acid RDA per slice. That would be 12mcg, and the FDA requires roughly 20mcg added folic acid per slice (40mcg per 100g), so I suspect the "folic acid" in the bread is natural folate from the wheat itself.

So apparently the added folic acid is only in "enriched" flour, and if you're careful you can find bread products without it. But assume restaurants/etc probably use enriched-flour products.

HI Garyfritz,

Dave's Killer Bread is really good, and the whole grain varieties have no added folic acid. White flour does. So now you know the situation with folic acid for you. I find that folic acid can block about 10x as much Metafolin, for me. The presence of methylfolate appears to keep B12 in the blood serum longer. Good health to you.

 

[garyfritz]

Hm. Maybe that's what was happening, but "keeping it in serum longer" doesn't sound like something that would produce near-instant relief from symptoms. Maybe the folic acid somehow blocked using the B12 in serum, and the methyl folate enabled my body to USE the B12 I'd already put in there?

 

[Freddd]

Hm. Maybe that's what was happening, but "keeping it in serum longer" doesn't sound like something that would produce near-instant relief from symptoms. Maybe the folic acid somehow blocked using the B12 in serum, and the methyl folate enabled my body to USE the B12 I'd already put in there?

Oh yes, they work hand in hand. They each enable each other to do their work. When a I have folic acid in me instead of Metafolin, the folic acid blocks, somehow, the MeCbl from working with the Metafolin and when it isn't being used it gets flushed out. Somehow the two appear related. It took me 5 years to assemble the deadlock quartet, and almost seven years to understand how to get my folate balanced and working most of the time. Best of luck.