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Folate Issues & Methylation

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by madietodd, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. Rosebud Dairy

    Rosebud Dairy Senior Member

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    Hey DB,
    Have you tried leaving out folic acid? It I think it might be in emergenc-C. Not sure which protocol you are on. Once I stopped eating anything with folic acid in it (foods and supplements - going gluten free really) , I began to see some improvements. It took about two weeks for the ragey-depressed symptoms to die down, just from ONE meal with folic acid in it. It really throws me down.

    How long is it expected you would be dumping heavy metals? Is this an indefinite process? I am not sure if I have already dumped mercury from having fillings removed a few years back.
     
  2. Pea

    Pea Senior Member

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    Madie & Dreambird & others re: brain fog and agitation - make sure you are getting enough magnesium. If you don't have enough of that, the potassium can't work.

    My friend's mental function cleared after we did an ascorbate flush which contains C, potassium, magnesium, zinc. I thought this happened because it had flushed ammonia out that had been accumulating, but I am now wondering if it wasn't the magnesium (and potassium). I posted some Wiki info re: magnesium in the Warning: Low Potassium thread.
     
  3. Rosebud Dairy

    Rosebud Dairy Senior Member

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    Thank you Pea! about the magnesium. I seem to leave it out too much.

    Will go look at the other thread
     
  4. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Thanks, Pea,

    After being on potassium (1500/day) for a few weeks, my bowel tolerance for magnesium went way down. So I lowered magnesium (from 1200mg/day). I've been wondering if I need to bring the potassium down a little and the magnesium up.

    In my electrolyte formula, these are in a 1:1 ratio. When I'm on 1500mg potassium, 500mg magnesium isn't quite enough, and adding another 200mg is too much. I think I'll try lowering potassium to 1200mg while upping magnesium to 700mg daily.

    EDIT: Adreno posted on another thread that I should look at the RDAs of magnesium and potassium, and they're not 1:1.
     
  5. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    I took 12800mcg metafolin yesterday in 4 divided doses. I felt a bit sick in the afternoon, so today I decided to take a break from it and try the low folate diet today, limiting carbs to white rice and plant foods to a bit of ginger and cocoa powder. I`m trying to duplicate madietodd`s experience of improvement by total avoidance of vegetable and grain source folates. I also take 20-45mg methyl b12.
     
  6. topaz

    topaz Senior Member

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    Pea

    Whats an ascorbate flush? I believe that I take sufficient magnesium but what dose do you suggest. And what dose of potassium?

    Thanks
     
  7. topaz

    topaz Senior Member

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    Madietodd and Dreambirdie

    Im in the same boat as both your worst symptoms - brain fog is at or near to an all time low and depression has hit really severely. Im on the methylB12 too and not hydroxy yet am getting the same symptoms as you MT.

    I have got rid of all supplements other than MB12, adlB12 and methylfolate for 2 days now as I thought it may be one of the co factors causing this (although I had been on magnesium and vit c and others for a long time before starting methylation). I have always been very low on potassium as I didnt appear to exhibit any symptoms and maybe this is the variable that I need to increase significantly.

    Good luck and I wish you an immediate recovery!
     
  8. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Hi, Topaz,

    I don't seem to get emotional symptoms, as long as I keep up with my potassium. So yes, take a look at that......since it's a quick and cheap fix if it works.

    The brain fog is frustrating, after a period of such clarity!

    I hope you figure your stuff out quickly!


    Madie
     
  9. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    I am also in the brain fog boat. Frustrating, yes!
     
  10. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    How's the low-folate day going?
     
  11. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    OK so far. I was tired and weak this morning, still recovering from a crash over the weekend. Now I seem to have some energy to move about. The brain fog is just like trying to get a lead balloon to float though! I figure if I get through the evening on the low folate diet I should see if it makes a difference tomorrow AM.
     
  12. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    I just want to add my experience to this - I find that I have vastly improved mental clarity / anti-depression on a gluten free diet. Avoiding no fruits or vegetables or even supplements with folic acid. This is from history. I followed a celiac diet for 2 years because of it and at the time was taking an inactive B100. So...just thought I'd mention that this experience may be due to the gluten-free bit and not the folic acid.

    Also as an aside, but Life Extension doctors report that the only thing necessary for all their patients to have normal blood pressure is to go gluten free. They verified this in clinical practice.

    Rydra
     
  13. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I'd been gluten free for years, and grain-free for months, before starting this. But I agree that gluten makes me foggy-brained.......and very very tired.
     
  14. topaz

    topaz Senior Member

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    Ive been gluten free/very low carb (no grains etc) for over a decade too.

    MAdietodd - I should perhaps put this under the potassium thread and I hope that Im not jinxing myself by posting after only 24 hours but........ I have been posting in a worried state that I had no potassium deficiency symptoms since starting methylation. I was worried as maybe the protocol hadnt unblocked the methylation cycle block. In the absence of the muscular symptoms I was afraid to dose up on potassium for fear of its impact on heart rhythm. However, for the past two weeks I have had crippling brain fog and debilitating depression. Yesterday I ate 4 bananas (and I dont even like bananas) and low and behold, today I woke up and felt better than Ive felt for two weeks now.

    Who would have thought that potassium deficiency could have this effect and this effect only on me. Touch wood that this continues and I dont have a relapse tomorrow and it IS the potassium and not some random variable!

    I need to order some potassium (its only available on prescription here in Australia - go figure!! or only in very low doses ie 33mg) from iherb.
     
  15. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Yay, Topaz!

    Don't you love it when something works?!

    I got that kind of effect from potassium too, and then I went into a slide. It seems that means I've hit the the next limiting factor blocking methylation. So if that happens to you, it doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong about potassium, or that you're done with it.

    Good luck!

    Madie
     
  16. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    Hi Topaz,

    If you have trouble getting it in tablets, while you're waiting, ginger and cocao powder both have high levels of potassium. Best to get the tablets, but if you're stuck, a cup of cocoa or some ginger tea is easier than eating multiple bananas :)
     
  17. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Cocoa's a great find! Cocoa powder has 82mg potassium per Tbs, plus if you make it with skim milk powder, that adds 392mg per 1/3 cup (of powder). Now I'm understanding why I drink so much cocoa.

    I didn't find high values for ginger, though. What do you use, L'engle?
     
    L'engle likes this.
  18. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    From Livestrong.com
    One oz. of ginger root provides 116 mg, or 3 percent of the RDA.

    Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/337334-ginger-root-nutrients/#ixzz1mgGDYquY

    The number doesn't sound very high to me either, but it always gets rid of the leg cramps, which is what I gauge it on. I'll have to monitor whether it has a reliable effect on pulse rate.
     
  19. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    So that's about the equivalent of one capsule; to me, that's a lot of ginger to eat. Or it's very strong tea! How do you get it down?
     
  20. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    Good question. I take a small slice of it and chew it with a couple of sips of water, swallowing the water and adding another sip if i need be. I don't eat the srtingy fibers, though, I throw them out once the ginger taste is gone. It's not pleasant, I'll tell you that much :p
     

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