FOI requests reveal how media & parliament being fed stories of ME "harassment"

[Daisymay]

A matter of curiosity -- When did SW and company start in with the exaggerated claims of death threats? Was it their own strategy, or might they have learned from the situation Daisymay has brought to our attention that this technique can be effective in discrediting and gagging your opponents (if you are the one in position of power, that is)?

Sorry SOC, I can't remember the timing of it all so I have no idea which came first or indeed if there is any connection or it's just a coincidence.

 

[SOC]

Sorry SOC, I can't remember the timing of it all so I have no idea which came first or indeed if there is any connection or it's just a coincidence.

Just a general question. I'm not expecting you to have the answer. It's just interesting that both groups used this psy-ops type campaign against the general citizenry when open and honest scientific discussion would contribute more to understanding the situation under discussion.

 

[biophile]

I think Wessely has complained about harassment for a long time, but the Science Media Centre's media blitz about dangerous ME militants began shortly after the PACE Trial results were first criticized and rejected by the patient community. IIRC they also claimed the publication of the trial results had triggered some of the harassment.

 

[Chrisb]

Just a general question. I'm not expecting you to have the answer. It's just interesting that both groups used this psy-ops type campaign against the general citizenry when open and honest scientific discussion would contribute more to understanding the situation under discussion.

If I recall correctly there was an interesting development in the law about a couple of years ago. Someone whose flight had been cancelled tweeted that he was going to blow up the airport. Doncaster or Humberside.

Everybody understood the comment for what it was. An expression of exasperation. Nevertheless he was prosecuted and found guilty. The decision was overturned on appeal on the basis that no one had felt threatened. No alterations had been made to security measures. The accused had lacked the means and the intention to carry out the act. The words could not be taken out of context and have ascribed to them a meaning wholly different from that intended, and understood to be intended.

But there again, as we all know, words mean what the psychobabblers want them to mean.

 

[Undisclosed]

I think some CBT is in order for Wessely as he is likely suffering from false 'harassment' beliefs.

 

[Countrygirl]

="Chrisb, post: 665894, member: 22016"]@Countrygirl
Now I understand why you took seriously the talk of D Notices as mentioned in an earlier post. And why you went to the trouble of researching them.

Yes, I did have very good reasons to be interested as some who were witnesses of the events are aware. You won't see the facts on the internet though.

One thing about this illness is that it gives one a lot of time to think, and I have sometimes wondered whether the enlargement from ME to CFS would have enabled a group of cases to be hidden in full view. Then I tell myself to stop the conspiracy theories. I suppose there would have to be researchers who had signed the Official Secrets Act to deal with that. I don't suppose we will ever know.

Conspiracy theories are no doubt usually a product of an overactive imagination.............except occasionally they are based on truth, but are hidden under the accumulating pile of nonsense. Pity we won't be alive to read all the so-called Secret Files on ME that have been locked away until 2071.

As for the OSA, according to a medical friend who was involved in ME meetings in London, she had to sign the OSA in order to participate in discussions. Seems bizarre, but maybe there is an understandable and rational reason.

 

[Chrisb]

As for the OSA, according to a medical friend who was involved in ME meetings in London, she had to sign the OSA in order to participate in discussions. Seems bizarre, but maybe there is an understandable and rational reason

This possibly takes the thread of subject, so I will just float the idea for people to ponder, should they wish to do so.

Is undisclosed signing of the Official Secrets Act compatible with publication in scientific journals? If one has signed up to a greater truth than science, how can anything one publishes be taken at face value. One may be committed to non disclosure of vital evidence.

A problem for any epistemologists amongst us.

 

[Countrygirl]

This possibly takes the thread of subject, so I will just float the idea for people to ponder, should they wish to do so.

Is undisclosed signing of the Official Secrets Act compatible with publication in scientific journals? If one has signed up to a greater truth than science, how can anything one publishes be taken at face value. One may be committed to non disclosure of vital evidence.

A problem for any epistemologists amongst us.

A very interesting observation! I am going to make a phone call...................................

 

[user9876]

This possibly takes the thread of subject, so I will just float the idea for people to ponder, should they wish to do so.

Is undisclosed signing of the Official Secrets Act compatible with publication in scientific journals? If one has signed up to a greater truth than science, how can anything one publishes be taken at face value. One may be committed to non disclosure of vital evidence.

A problem for any epistemologists amongst us.

I believe everyone in the UK is bound by the official secrets act since its law. Signing it is just a reminder. I know I signed it when I was a civil servant.

It also has a public interest defense for leaking information.

 

[Countrygirl]

http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/The-MRC-secret-files-on-ME.htm


Apparently, Sharpe admitted the PACE trial had no theoretical foundation.

The Psychiatry section continues: “Sharpe (Oxford) (ie. Michael Sharpe, one of the three PACE Trial Principal Investigators) described a trial of cognitive and behavioural therapy which he is just starting at the Warneford Hospital. The aim is to help patients re-evaluate and, if appropriate, change, unhelpful feelings about their performance and symptoms, and thus break the vicious circle. He admitted that the trial was a purely pragmatic approach without theoretical foundation‛ (it is interesting to see confirmation in an MRC document – and from Sharpe himself -- that this study [BMJ 1996:312:22-26], one of the most-relied upon in the “evidence-base” for CBT in the 2007 NICE Clinical Guideline, was merely pragmatic and without theoretical foundation).

........................ So was it just based on..........thin air...........or was it to accord with this desired outcome................(hidden away in the Secret Files, apparently)

“Summarising, the Chairman (Kleinman) predicted that in 10 years time…the central issues in the CFS field would be social rather than medical or scientific, partly driven by the economics and funding of the disability systems in various countries”.


Here, again, is evidence that the problem of ME/ CFS is seen in terms of economic costs to the nation and not in terms of alleviating suffering.


Numerous sections of this document are redacted and censored under FOI exemption 40 (2) and are marked “CLOSED UNTIL 2071”.

 

[BurnA]

@Countrygirl do coyne and tuller have all this info ?
Thanks !

 

[Countrygirl]

@Countrygirl do coyne and tuller have all this info ?
Thanks !

I have no idea, BurnA. It is readily available, of course. Perhaps Tom would give Tuller the link as he is in direct contact??

 

[CantThink]

I was very ill and vulnerable and an elderly relative was also frightened, so I withdrew. All the folk who had their lives ruined by organophosphates and ME have now disappeared into a well of silence or have taken their own lives. The strategy worked.

So terrible. @Countrygirl I remember reading about the OP link in an ME charity newsletter (can't remember which one) years ago, I think it may have also been with reference to the COM (did she or someone close to her get sheep dip issues..?).

I have to say, after reading this: Must 'break the vicious cycle'

 

[Countrygirl]

So terrible. @Countrygirl I remember reading about the OP link in an ME charity newsletter (can't remember which one) years ago, I think it may have also been with reference to the COM (did she or someone close to her get sheep dip issues..?).

Yes, she did. She was one of our speakers when we hired a large, plush (we usually managed to commandeer palatial venues ) room at County Hall and told us her story. She was a sheep farmer and one day as she was dipping, she splashed organophosphate dip into her welly boot. With the accumulated exposures over some years,this gave her ME. Several exposures over time had taken her to the tipping point and this was the last straw. If I recall correctly, her GP didn't believe her. Possessing a peerage evidently does not protect you from the idiocy of the medical members of the flat earth society. I think she soon sorted him out though and has fought diplomatically and fiercely for our community ever since.

 

[BurnA]

I have no idea, BurnA. It is readily available, of course. Perhaps Tom would give Tuller the link as he is in direct contact??

@Tom Kindlon ?

 

[CantThink]

She was a sheep farmer and one day as she was dipping, she splashed organophosphate dip into her welly boot. With the accumulated exposures over some years,this gave her ME. Several exposures over time had taken her to the tipping point and this was the last straw. If I recall correctly, her GP didn't believe her. Possessing a peerage evidently does not protect you from the idiocy of the medical members of the flat earth society. I think she soon sorted him out though and has fought diplomatically and fiercely for our community ever since.

Thank you for refreshing my memory! It has all come back to me now.

I had a non-blood related family member who was a commercial pilot. He got poisoned through his work while in the cockpit. It was so difficult to get anyone to take him seriously for a long time... Then that stuff came out quite recently that proved the pilots were getting sick.

I'm quite surprised they were not given the whole M.E. insurance/cost to the nation silencing treatment (though I expect there probably was some stuff going on behind the scenes to try to squash it, seems on a par for the course).

 

[Art Vandelay]

Please note, these links are about supposed death threats to Australian climate change scientists back in about 2011 and nothing to do with ME researchers but I am posting these links as there may, or may not be, an interesting parallel with the supposed ME/CFS death threats etc, I've no idea, but just a thought.

Through FOI requests and a report by the Australian Privacy Commissioner it was found that the supposed death threats weren't death threats after all and it appears the media were instrumental in blowing the whole story out of proportion.

Pathological exaggerators caught on “death threats”: How 11 rude emails became a media blitz
http://joannenova.com.au/2012/05/pa...eats-how-11-rude-emails-became-a-media-blitz/

Death Threats? Respect the science? Start with some evidence.
http://joannenova.com.au/2011/09/death-threats-respect-the-science/

Chubb: no death threats in emails
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...hreats-in-emails/story-e6frg8y6-1226370442926

Interestingly, I see there is an Australian SMC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Science_Media_Centre
"Science Media Centres exist in other countries; Canada, UK, New Zealand, and Japan. These centres are independent of each other, but cooperate regularly."

Hi @Daisymay I remember this story very well and have been struck ever since by how it mirrors the dubious claims of death threats from ME/CFS patients by the Wessley cabal.

In particular, it turned out that while the scientists had received some abusive emails, none of them contained death threats. Also, no reports of threats had ever been made to police.

Interestingly, in another parallel, some climate scientists have not complied with FOI requests for their data and had claimed that repeated attempts to gain access to the data was 'harassment'.

 

[Kati]

Just a general question. I'm not expecting you to have the answer. It's just interesting that both groups used this psy-ops type campaign against the general citizenry when open and honest scientific discussion would contribute more to understanding the situation under discussion.

I have an answer for you.

For a while I was keeping tabs on what was going out in the media and whether it was associated with anything else going on in the community. Here is what I found:

http://x-tremedenial.blogspot.ca/2011/08/uk-goes-crazy-seemingly-after-new-me.html

Simon, Simon, Simon...

 

[SOC]

I have an answer for you.

For a while I was keeping tabs on what was going out in the media and whether it was associated with anything else going on in the community. Here is what I found:

http://x-tremedenial.blogspot.ca/2011/08/uk-goes-crazy-seemingly-after-new-me.html

Simon, Simon, Simon...

So, right about the same time others were playing the false threats game... and right after the ICC came out.

Sigh... the man has no shame.