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FMT (poo pills) released commercially

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Adster, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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  2. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    Now we just have to wait until its available for other conditions...
     
  3. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Must admit I misread that first link. :cool::eek:
     
  4. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    :lol:
     
  5. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    $635 for the equivalent of one diy poo transplant! You'd need deep pockets to follow the protocol of one FMT a day for 10 consecutive days for anything other than C. diff.
     
  6. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    From my understanding it is $635 for 30 pills - thats less than $22 a pill.

    Several years ago this treatment would cost a patient $20k as they would have to go to Australia to see Dr. Thomas Borody at the Centre for Digestive Disease. He was the only knowledgable physician to administer transplants at the time. We have come a long way... eventually the costs will be more affordable but this is already a huge improvement.
     
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  7. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Yes, but the dosage is this "The recommended dose for treatment of rCDI is 30 capsules, swallowed consecutively in a single session", so only one course per bottle. CDD is similarly priced now at about $6500 for a ten day course of FMT's if you only need enema's.
     
  8. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I expect it won't be long before physicians like Dr De Meirleir start using these FMT pills for ME/CFS patients.

    According to a study by Dr Thomas Borody et al at the Centre for Digestive Diseases in Australia, 58% of ME/CFS patients with IBS given a fecal transplant (bacteriotherapy) achieved resolution from their ME/CFS symptoms (of sleep deprivation, lethargy/fatigue). And this resolution in symptoms has been sustained for two decades to date, according to the study.

    However, the study does not indicate the initial severity of ME/CFS the patients had, ie, mild, moderate or severe ME/CFS.

    And interestingly, all 4 of the patients in the study that had ME/CFS alone (with no concurrent gastrointestinal symptoms like IBS) failed to respond to the fecal transplant.

    There is a thread on the Borody study here.

    So these FMT pills could become another useful treatment for ME/CFS patients.



    It looks like you cannot buy the FMT fecal microbiota transplant pills yourself as a patient; you need to do it through a doctor. From the Openbiome FMT website:
    Note: IND = investigational new drug.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  10. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

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    Just wanted to link the study for those interested: http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/publicati...robiome and its role in CFS - ACNEM paper.pdf
     
  11. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    What would it take to let our Experts know and see if any of them want to open a clinical trial. Due to the interest in this therapy? Maybe we can put some Blog articles out about it???
     
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  12. Rrrr

    Rrrr Senior Member

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    personal experience shows that fecal transplants (via enemas, 10 days in a row) did not help my ME, but worked for constipation. and an ME friend went from only tolerating 3 foods, literally, to eating all types of food, just from fecal transplants (enemas). so that means these poop pills would likely work for constipation and some types of food intolerances too.

    NOTE TO DOCTORS: why not see if you can order from the company (OpenBiome) these for your patients who need them, even if they don't have c diff...?
     
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  13. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    my latest uBiome test shows only 29 species present. Yes, i have ulcerartive colitis as well, so my situation is more complex, but I could really do with these pills. Shame i cant get hold of them.
     
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  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    The Openbiome website provides a MAP of doctors in the US who use fecal microbiota transplant (bacteriotherapy) to treat patients with Clostridium difficile gut infections. These doctors are able to treat such patients using the Openbiome FMT pills.

    I am wondering whether any of these doctors might be persuaded to treat ME/CFS patients. I believe doctors treating ME/CFS patients with FMT pills would be required to file an IND (Investigational New Drug) application, but OpenBiome have made this easy to do (see this page).

    Openbiome say that:
    However, I could not find map or list of the European fecal transplant doctors who would be eligible to use the Openbiome FTM pills, just the US map above.

    Incidentally, Openbiome supply fecal transplants in three forms:
    FMT G3 capsules for taking orally
    FMT for delivery via enema into the lower gastrointestinal tract
    FMT for delivery via nasogastric tube into the upper gastrointestinal tract
    Ref: 1


    From the research perspective, this is interesting:
    Thus if one of the ME/CFS doctors or researchers wanted to set up a study for treating ME/CFS patients with the Openbiome FMT pills, it looks like the scientists at Openbiome would be very interested in helping and supporting such a study.


    For research in general, OpenBiome say:
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  15. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    I spoke to KDM about this and he said that in his experience the relief is only temporary, indicating an underlying immune dysfunction.
     
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  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Did KDM happen to mention how long the temporary improvements last for? I am thinking that if these FMT pills were to improve your ME/CFS symptoms for say 6 months, you might consider taking the FMT pills twice a year.
     
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  17. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    I saw this bit of research recently on FMT, http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/291532.php

    [The researchers found that the gut bacteria of patients who underwent FMT was normalized shortly after the procedure. They were surprised to find, however, that while the composition of patients' gut bacteria changed following FMT, it remained healthy for up to 21 weeks.]


    I see some doing FMT say that they follow up clinical treatment with monthly d.i.y infusions for a while, looking at this research you might only need a maintenance dose about every 5 months or so to retain the benefit.
     
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  18. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    I got the impression it was much shorter than that, though to be honest I didn't ask.
     
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  19. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    I read this in another thread, alexa said " i talked about fecal transplants with KDM since my mom ( a doctor) read a lot of interesting research about it, he said that it would help but only for 10 weeks about, then the faulty bacteria would grow back."
    forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/fecal-transplants-seriously-what-do-we-think.15349/
     
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  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I guess if one day these FMT pill drop in price, then people might be able to afford to take them every 3 months say. In fact, if these pills improved you enough so that you could get back to work, you could probably afford to take them every 3 months even at current prices (of $635 a time).



    I wonder why KDM's experience with fecal transplant indicates the improvements in ME/CFS only last 10 weeks, whereas the Borody study I cited above found that for ME/CFS patients with comorbid IBS, the fecal transplant benefits lasted indefinitely (sustained for two decades so far).
     

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