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Flushing after eating

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by SDSue, May 25, 2014.

  1. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    I've finally put together a few "good" POTS days. In the reduction of those symptoms, I've been able to notice a distinct pattern.

    Every time I eat, (I'm gluten free, whole foods) I get one of two reactions: 1. I flush, get hot, and itch around my neck and ears , or 2. my brain gets "inflamed", both occur within about 20 minutes.

    Am I correct in assuming this is a histamine release? (Even before falling ill, I didn't particularly like to eat, especially large meals. I always felt better with an empty stomach).

    Even if I eat low histamine foods, I still get this reaction. My question is this: Now what? Do I need to do an elimination diet? Histame? Any suggestions?

    Thanks so much. Signed,
    Hot and Hungry
  2. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I know in my case that happens due to my problems I have with hyperinsulinemia. One eats, the insulin quickly spikes in response and my brain is affected by the abnormal high amounts of insulin my body produces.

    I do know that insulin issues can cause lots of other symptoms too.. maybe even flushing?? The specialist I see for this disorder calls it the "pandora's box of illnesses" as it can cause so many different symptoms. He has patients who have been diagnosed with CFS who turn out to have this causing their symptoms.

    It may be a good idea for you to get a 2hr glucose tollerance test done with the insulin result included (note some places do not get the blood to the lab in the best condition as it should be transported on ice or the levels can degrade and that at times can cause people to receive a false normal result. Insulin levels often have to be specially requested on the form as part of a 2hr GTT.

    If you do have this issue.. you may need a diet that could need to be even lower in carbs then a normal diabetic diet (those diets are way to high for my insulin issues). This issue if not caught and put on a suitable diet, leads to diabetes.

    Due to having hyperinsulinemia, I felt better not eatting when I did (most foods have carbs!)

    If you have this issue, with dairy you will need to be taking full cream and not skim (as the fat in the dairy helps stop the carbs in the dairy from spiking the insulin so much), eatting meat or eggs with every meal (to slow down carb spikes) and eatting very low carb (you'd be surprised at the things Im not meant to eat due to this issue).
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  3. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    @taniaaust1 Thanks so much! This is good information. Thanks so much. Maybe this explains why I'm naturally drawn to a high fat, hi protein diet.

    What type of specialist do you see for this?
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    In the States a good internist should be able to handle this. The 3 hour glucose tolerance testing is available at places like Labcorp and Quest--you just hang out there for a few hours and they stick you now and then. Your doc can request that insulin be measured with each stick test too.

    Sushi
    SDSue likes this.
  5. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    Update: For the past 2 days, I've done a little trial. I ate only rice, beef, and coconut (rice because it was my plan - spikes insulin and has a low allergy potential, beef because I was starving and it was all I had, and coconut because I cannot live without a little something in my coffee:thumbsup: )

    No flushing, reduced brain inflammation! Then I ate edamame (a known allergen) and within 20 minutes, I had my reaction, this time with hives. Yikes. Still itching this morning.

    Good news: Looks like it's allergies and I don't have to wait 72 hours to find causes.
    Bad news: Looks like it's allergies and they are progressing. I've a history of anaphylaxis - the itching inside my ears and hives are familiar pre-anaphylaxis symptoms, so I need to get serious. MIght be time to update the epi-pen.

    Questions -
    Anybody have a similar situation?
    Is this a typical problem when our immune systems are broken?
    Is this an EDS/mastocytosis thing? Ughhh
    Any good resources for allergy diets?
    Is paleo a good diet for allergy issues?

    Thanks, my fellow warriors:ninja:
  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @SDSue
    Is this typical w/ broken immune systems? Probably doesn't help things. But likely underlying genetic issues.

    You refer to update the epi-pen. So you clearly have a history. And yes, there's likely a Masto component. But it's something you can deal with. Do you know that histamines accumulate, when your histamine 'bucket' is full, it overflows into reaction.

    I've been on GAPS diet 2.5 years. It's said that Paleo is for well people, GAPS for unwell people. I've come to love it's simplicity and gut-healing through elimination of all starches. Altho the simplicity for me comes especially because I've had to eliminate most things! You, like me, would have to make significant modifications for histamines. I only uncovered my histamine and sulfur intolerances on the GAPS diet. I had persistent and increasing rosacea-like eczema on my face. I had to eliminate all histaminic foods prior to a urine histamine test (which showed nothing significant!) My face cleared approx 50% overnight. Then I removed sulfur, and the remaining cleared, just as quickly.

    This is now nearly 2 years ago, I've been on a learning curve about histamines and then about mast cells ever since. One of the things I now understand is that it's not only our foods that create histamines, but some of our natural physiological processes. In my recent detox protocol, I had to compensate for both histamines and sulfur (ammonia) by-products.

    The anti-histamines that I've found brilliant: rutin, mangosteen, royal jelly. I assume they must act differently, as I self-test for using all 3. I've found that rutin can halt a histamine outbreak within minutes. I used to use quercetin, the first one I learned of from Amy Yasko. But mangosteen has replaced it. Quercetin is hi-sulfur and I'm happy to have an alternative.

    I've been collecting histamine resources. There was a commenter on Healthypixels (link below) who shared his collected notes in an online notebook format, which is due to expire soon. So yesterday I went in and collected a bunch more, which I've barely scanned. I'm linking some things that might be useful to you.

    In my understanding, which is limited on this point, you can have histamine issues w/o masto , but if you've already gone near anaphylaxis, I suspect masto involvement. Dr. Theoharides notes that the only definitive test is bone marrow, and I certainly won't go there. You can treat these things by symptoms, without testing.

    Dr. Theoharides is the expert on mast cells. I'm linking 3 of his vids. the 3rd is a short interview about a product he designed, Neuroprotek. He's a pharmacologist, I'll link his main website, w/ many research papers. Once I'd done all that I could w/ my methylation pathway and was still dissatisfied w/ the amount of non-stop inner chatter i was experiencing, I decided to try his formulation. I felt different w/in hours, and was able to stop a number of my other supplements immediately (including hypothalamus and adrenal glandulars). Brilliant!

    Lowhistaminechef has some great info, including interviews w/ Dr. Janice Cottrell (?) re histamines, and anti-histamine drugs. Basically, H1/2 blocker meds do not work prophylactically. Don't bother! For me, all pharmaceuticals push histamine responses. She's also very encouraging, and has created a bunch of low-hist cookbooks.

    I've not spent any time on peelingbacktheonionlayers, but there are recipes there, too.

    I'm posting a couple different food lists, one created by, or at least posted by Critterina here at pr. the other is a very user-friendly one I found when I was reviewing the notes yesterday. I've included a 3 minute self-testing vid because I think this is an essential tool for progressing in self-treatment. I treat by symptoms, ask my body re supp doses. It works.

    OK, I think that's enough for today. Please don't feel overwhelmed. This will change your life. If you're working on your methylation pathways, these 2 areas go hand in hand, will both improve. I'm finally histamine-outbreak free. For 10 years or more I was always on the verge of a new outbreak somewhere. And only this week, when I went into a histamine overload, did I understand that waking in fright from bad dreams was histamine induced. I'd noticed that I was no longer doing this for some months, when it just happened. No longer a problem. cheers, ahmo

    http://thelowhistaminechef.com/wondering-why-you-react-to-everything-you-eat/

    Video talk, incl. supps for histamine
    http://thelowhistaminechef.com/dr-janice-joneja-histamine-intolerance-interview-pt2/
    http://thelowhistaminechef.com/these-probiotic-strains-lower-histamine-rather-than-raising-it/

    The Many Faces of Histamine Intolerance http://healthypixels.com/?p=1044
    http://peelingbacktheonionlayers.com/could-histamine-be-sabotaging-your-digestive-health/

    ‘Brain Allergy’ and ASD - T. Theoharides, MD, PhD‬ https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9QbZp3WcC1Q

    Mastocytosis with Theoharis C. Theoharides, MS, PhD, MD, FAA‬ http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CplxXGpFeKQ

    Neuroprotek http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pNQsK9PQL3c

    http://mastcellmaster.com/publications.php/ Theoharides website

    http://food-intolerance-network.com...ine-intolerance-hit-tolerated-foods-list.html

    forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?attachments/allowed-restricted-foods-pdf.6414/
    Self-testing http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ex59wHLk3Q0
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
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  7. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

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    Super resource list, Ahmo! Thank you for the time you put into compiling it. I wonder if the second and third links up from the bottom are the right ones, the links that should be to food lists? I can't access the PR link and the food intolerance network link goes instead to the same page as peelinbackthelayers histamine intolerance page you link to earlier.
  8. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    Oh my gosh, @ahmo that is fabulous!!! It's going to take me some time, but I can't wait to get thru all the above references. I am highly motivated as my reactions are escalating too quickly for my own comfort. Thank you so very much.
    ahmo likes this.
  9. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
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  10. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    @ahmo I'd really like to see the self-testing video, but the link isn't working properly. Thanks so much.
  11. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  12. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    There's one simple statement I neglected to make. Mast cells react to stress. There's a direct adrenal linkage. Over the past 2 weeks, when I cleared my adrenals in an ongoing detox process, all my mast cell symptoms disappeared. As did my tinnitus. So it's important for you to stay :cool:.
    sueami and SDSue like this.
  13. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    @ahmo
    Can I please hear a little more about your experience with NeuroProtek?

    One of my main complaints is brain inflammation. I can feel and hear it. It's unlike any headache I've ever had, and it affects everything from balance and coordination to hearing and reaction time.

    What symptoms did NeuroProtek help for you?[/QUOTE]
  14. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @SDSue Specifically, I got to the end of all the things to be done in repairing methylation cycle. I'd gotten to a high dose of B12/folate, no longer had insomnia, was calm for the first time in my life. But I became very aware that, eg. listening to the radio, I couldn't attend to a whole sentence without my inner chatter disrupting. I'm a long-term meditator, I know about watching. I watched this for a couple weeks, after I'd already watched Theoharides, and knew of, but hadn't watched his vid re Neuroprotek.

    Knowing that the other things he'd said in the 2 vids had been right for me, I decided to go w/ his product. After all, he's not only a mast cell researcher, but a pharmacologist. Within hours, unlike the time lag he suggests, I felt different. Less congested in my mind. Less chatter. From that night on I no longer needed the glandular products I'd relied on the past 2 years to compensate for my over-active nervous system, to help me sleep. No more hypothalamus or pituitary glandular. Returning my un-opened bottles paid for my first bottle of Neuroprotek!

    I use 1-2 twice a day, much less than his suggested doses. I suppose I could get an even quieter mind w/ taking more, but this does what I wanted, and fits my budget.

    BTW, I'm very impressed by your expression of commitment. Not everyone says I'm ready to do whatever's necessary to shift this thing! :thumbsup: cheers, ahmo
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  15. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    @ahmo I'm going to give it a whirl. I'll keep you posted (if I remember, which is highly doubtful!) Thanks so much.
  16. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

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    @ahmo , where do you buy your Neuroprotek from? I'm finding it only via Amazon and two varieties, one that is low phenol. Not sure what low phenol is indicated for though.

    Thanks for all the time you are putting into this thread, btw!
  17. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    @sueami I looked around and found the price to be fixed. So I ordered from Amazon.

    Ahmo and I were chatting about this phenol thing yesterday. I googled high phenol foods and found that I hadn't had trouble with them (that I'm aware of). I've also used high doses of Quercitin without any trouble and really want to try Rutin, as people seem to like it. So I ordered the regular version.

    Neuroprotek:
    Lutein 100 mg
    Rutin 30 mg
    Quercitin 70 mg

    Neuroprotek LP:
    Lutein 100 mg
    Rutin 1 mg
    Quercitin 40 mg

    True to my temperament, I launched into the full thing. I hope it doesn't bite me lol.
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  18. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    @ahmo
    If you have the time, I'd love to hear more about your diet. @caledonia was kind enough to point out my potential sulfur issues, which makes a lot of sense, considering my genes and history:

    Prior to my final crash nearly 3 years ago, which landed me bed-bound and now housebound, I spent months existing on a diet heavy on brussels sprouts, hummus and coffee, with some fast food thrown in for good measure. Talk about hi sulfur! I got sicker and sicker and sicker until an IV heavy in glutathione sent me into the abyss within hours.

    Last night I ate a huge helping of asparagus, and was hit with a raging migraine 4 hours later. I've noticed the same with hummus and have given it up. Looks like sulfur is the bad guy!:devil:

    Without histamine foods and sulfur foods, I simply don't know what to eat!!!! I've already cut out gluten for over a year, but don't notice a difference. When coffee goes, because of the sulfur, I may no longer have a reason to get out of bed. :(

    Yikes. Would you mind giving an idea of your diet? The more I read, the more confused I get, so I'd really appreciate any help you might offer. Thanks!
  19. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @SDSue Yes, my diet is very limited. I've adapted to that. But I've also adapted to being a recluse. There is no social eating in my life. The range of veggies that aren't sulfur is almost nil. I was using zucchini, but this turned out to be blocking the folate, and I've quit that.

    My diet is now, w/o the zucchini: 2 meals/day of bone broth, w/ fat (approx 2 Tb animal fat, which I render and pour into muffin tins, eating 1/meal), a very small piece of meat, reduced from approx 1 palm-sized, to 1/2 that; 1 carrot, cooked, 1Tb soaked buckwheat. Approx 3 Tb mixed seed/nut paste (almond, brazil nut, pepita, sunflower, w/ olive oil, almond oil, ghee), small amts of ghee and honey.

    I just added in a Tb of beans a few times a week as my resistant starch. Hurray! A starch that's high-thiol (sulfur).

    I had been drinking 1 cu carrot/lettuce juice, but have stopped that for now.

    I love every meal.:)
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  20. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    Wow, that is limited. Did you get there by starting with very little and trying to add, or by gradually learning what caused a reaction, and then eliminating things one by one?

    I find that I'm suddenly reacting to a lot of things that I either didn't before, or was too sick to notice. But the reactions are quite strong and definite. It's a little scary. What responses do you have to forbidden foods?

    Any suggestions on bone broth? I had horrid GI issues when I tried before, and I love broth so it was hard to give up.

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