Professor & patients' paper on the solvable biological challenge of ME/CFS: reader-friendly version
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Fixing Leaky Gut (Round 2)

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by JAGuy, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    Hello friends,

    It has been a while. If you guys are not familiar with my work, I created this thread...

    Fixing Leaky Gut = One Possible ME/CFS Cure ( http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/fixing-leaky-gut-one-possible-me-cfs-cure.39712/ )

    Sorry that I haven't kept you guys up-to-date, but I haven't been feeling well. I have made some progress that I would like to share with you guy.

    I think to fully recover from Leaky Gut you need to have the following items in place and why...

    1. Fully-functional methylation cycle - Follow the different methylation protocols on this forum. They work. I think having a fully-functional cycle allows your body to create its own intestinal coating through fructose-6-phosphate ( http://oregonstate.edu/dept/biochem/hhmi/hhmiclasses/bb450/winter2002/ch16/c16bas.htm ).

    2. Great pH balance - Having great pH balance allows your body to create adequate stomach acid for nutrient absorption and have the resiliency to handle organic acids produced in your gut. To get my pH back into balance, I took calcium hydroxyapatite / magnesium glycinate. It appeared my body could not handle calcium bonded with organic acids such as citric and malic acids. I think taking formulas like Acid-A-Cal ( http://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Products/Bone-and-Joint/Joint/01151-Acid-A-Cal.aspx ) and Acid-A-Med ( http://www.europharmausa.com/products/acid-a-med/ ) would also be beneficial to help in calcium metabolism. Oh yeah, don't forget the typical calcium co-factors such as Vitamin C, Zinc, Copper, Vitamin D, Vitamin K, and Boron.

    Now with the aforementioned items in place, I notice when I take 1000 mg - 2000 mg of Glutamine that my intestines is now coated. However, depending on the state of your body, coated-intestines block nutrient absorption at least in my case. To get over this blockage in nutrient absorption, I would take InterFase ( https://www.protherainc.com/prod/proddetail.asp?ID=K-INT-12 ) to eat the coating off my intestine walls, eat good food to get my body back in order, and then try a new experiment.

    When my intestines were coated during this round of experimentation and the past, I noticed the first thing that starts failing is my adrenals. In the past, one thing that would perk up my adrenals is butyric acid, one of the organic acids that our gut bacteria are supposed to produce. So, I took some butyric acid and my adrenals felt somewhat nourished.

    Like I stated earlier, when my intestines are coated, I felt that my body was not absorbing my food properly. My gut was able to withstand the acidity of the butyric acid, but it was not absorbing my food properly. I think in a fully healthy body most of the food absorption should take place in the small intestines, while the large intestines is suppose to absorb water and electrolytes; provide some nutrient absorption; ferment fiber to produce organic acids; produce additional vitamins; and store fecal matter. On the other hand, the large intestines of a person with leaky gut is huge requirement for additional nutrient absorption.

    I hoped by adding probiotics would facilitate additional nutrient absorption in the large intestines, but it did not. Perhaps, the probiotics I took was not strong enough to do so.

    For my next experiment, I may try to take Molkosan ( http://www.avogel.co.uk/food/molkosan-digestion/ ) with or without coated-intestines. I have not decided. I think Molkosan would encourage the correct pH in the colon.

    I feel weak and tired. I have been battled health issues non-stop since 2009. I am tired. I need your help guys to pick up where I left off. It will not be another two weeks to a month until I get the urge to experiment again.
     
  2. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    Wow, what interest this thread is showing, :) .

    Anyone has an opinion or insight into what I posted?

    I am ready to give another update soon.
     
  3. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    You've had nearly 150 views (which is more than many get) but I guess no one has anything to say yet .... including me! :)

    Interesting, though. Thank you.
     
  4. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    Thanks for the response Sarah. I just wish we had more participation because I feel that we are close to taming this beast.
     
  5. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    There's definitely a lot of interest in sorting out the gut, JAGuy. Gut problems seem to be one of the few near constants in the illness, and one of the areas we keep coming back to. Good luck. Keep us posted.
     
  6. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    How do you know that this has occurred?
     
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  7. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    Hi, welcome to my thread.

    I just feel it. My gut feels warmer. My gut doesn't get irritated from too much bile. My gut doesn't react to high histamine foods.
     
  8. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    I have one more thought before I go to bed. In the above quote, I mentioned that my gut gets less irritated when I have it coated.

    I wonder if I get the organic acids such as butyric acid going in my non-coated intestines, could I achieve the same effect as if I had the glutamine-derived coating?

    Butyric acid is known to reduce inflammation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  9. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    I had a very quick look at your other thread. There are some interesting ideas and points made, but as in this one, there are too many claims based on speculation for my scientific brain! I may have another look later if I have time.

    Re this thread, you state, as well as claiming that you can tell whether your intestine is 'coated', that something will eat off the coating, that you can tell when your adrenal glands are failing or affected, that a particular substance makes them pick up or feel nourished, etc., but I don't see how you can know these things. I wish it were so easy to know what is going on in our bodies!

    Have you read some of the other leaky-gut threads?

    By the way, leaky gut/excessive intestinal permeability is regarded, at least by some scientists, to be due to problems with junctions between cells known as tight junctions - I don't think it's so much to do with 'coating'. You may find this paper interesting.

    Re butyric acid, it does seem to be beneficial to many with ME.
     
  10. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Thanks for mentioning that, MeSci. It leads to some interesting places. I just found this (epic) thread on Clostrydium Butyricum, a probiotic which apparently converts lactic acid into butyric acid. On the face of it, that sounds like a very good thing for us.

    If you don't want to wade through 50 pages of that thread, I think the consensus on CB was "maybe not". There's a really interesting post and follow-ups on the final page of the thread, starting here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...icum-a-game-changer.37324/page-50#post-657009 - very pertinent for those of us with high tested levels of D- and L-lactate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
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  11. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.

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    I just added butter to my diet (and cut way, way down on sugar and carbs) last week and almost cannot believe how much better I've been doing.

    The previous week walking up one flight of stairs brought symptoms. Since then I've been walking at least 45 mins every day. Definitely moved my PEM threshold.
     
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  12. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    Well, all science starts off as speculation.

    It is up to the individual to follow through with the speculation and turn it into scientific fact.

    I have tried a lot of different thing over time.

    One thing I noticed is that building good health is a sequential process, you have to perform it in order. For example, you might buy a supplement that doesn't work now, but you will probably need it in the future.

    Since I tried a lot things in the past, when I am stumped on why my current speculations didn't work, it is only right to review things that I have done in the past to see if it can help with my present situation, right?

    I do admit that I have blown a lot of money, but hey you sometimes need to purchase material to support scientific facts. I perhaps needed to be a bit more scientific or a bit more patient at times, but when you see the light at the end of the tunnel, then you are going to do everything to reach it.

    You have to know and pay attention to your body to see if something is working. Maybe I am in-tune with myself compared to the average person, I dunno.

    About my glutamine-coated intestines and organic acid idea... It is just speculation, it is up to me to find out why it didn't work.

    To make a long story short, I think if a colon is not inflammed when anything histamine inducing is not present, then it is ready for population of good bacteria.

    Perhaps, I don't need to take glutamine.

    Remember, we need less supplements as our bodies get healthly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  13. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    Okay guys, I just made a great discovery.

    I have been taking a combination of Bifido, Lacto, Clostridium Butyricum, and a small amount of other probiotics.

    I noticed when I drank milk or indulged in slightly-refined dairy products, which are basically lactose bases, the population of the probiotics in my gut increased exponentially.

    After reading the preceding statement, you may have already guessed why... Bifido and Lacto are lactic acid bacteria, which is why they prefer dairy-based sugar.

    When I decided to switch to Inulin / FOS to try and get some butyric acid going, guess what happened? Most of those Bifido and Lacto bacteria died, and I guess the Clostridium Butyricum bacteria become dominate.

    The preceding reactions probably explain why most people's resistant starch experiments failed because you don't have enough butyric acid producing bacteria to digest the starch properly.

    Here is the overall point, I guess for gut barren people such as myself, there is nothing off the shelf at the moment that can cure us.

    Unless one of these innovators listed here ( http://thepowerofpoop.com/resources/innovation/ ) , release an FDA-approved product that we can from doctor's prescription just based off of CFS/ME symptoms or just simply off the shelf, then FMT is the only opinion.
     
  14. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Sorry to be a bore, but can you tell us how you knew that 'the population of the probiotics in my gut increased exponentially' and then that 'Bifido and Lacto bacteria died'. Did you have stool tests?

    BTW, re milk, some leaky-gut regimes require cutting out dairy products. I presume you have read this thread.

    Another point - I think that the point of particular diets and prebiotics is that they enable the desired bacteria to multiply. As long as you have some of those bacteria, you may just need to feed them, and maybe try to optimise the pH too, although the bacteria also play a role in that.
     
  15. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    I pay attention to sensations in my body. Perhaps, one of the reasons I can tell what is wrong with my body is because my body was probably in worst condition than your's.

    Another thing in my journey to better health is that once you reach a certain state of wellness, then it is hard to figure out what remaining problems still exist.

    Like in this instance, my gut is more barren than your's so I can easily pay attention to activity inside of it. I guess it is all about sensitvity in the end.

    About the milk problem, you can easily buy isolated lactose powder. Perhaps, my gut is not that leaky anymore and I can tolerate milk now.
     
  16. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Wow. That's quite an improvement in such little time frame.
     
  17. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    My levels tested below normal years ago.

    I eat ghee now. Can't say I feel any different but I'm trying.
     
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  18. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.

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    Yeah, I'm surprised.

    I've been pushing my energy envelope most days, and while my body is reacting on those days, it hasn't gone into pem.
     
  19. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    It's good to pay attention to changes in sensations in the body, but to make a giant leap and say those sensations you feel are due to increased populations of probiotic bacteria is another thing.

    You might speculate that drinking milk and dairy products increases your gut bacteria, and you might speculate that when you switched to inulin, some of these bacteria died; but you don't really know this with any certainly. Of course, if you had a stool analysis done before and after drinking milk, and this showed a large increase in gut bacteria, then this would be a fact.



    If it is the butyric acid from butter than is making these improvements, then you might be a good candidate for Clostridium butyricum, which is a butyric acid-producing bacterium.
     
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  20. Hanna

    Hanna Senior Member

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    Could you precise how much butter you added to your daily diet and for how long until you saw improvement in PEM ?
     

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