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Fixing Leaky Gut = One Possible ME/CFS Cure

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by JAGuy, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    Hello everyone,

    I am going to get straight to the point. I think Leaky Gut is a very hard problem to overcome. I have tried the following solutions:

    Proline 500 mg
    Lysine 500 mg
    Glycine 500 mg
    Threonine 1000 mg
    Serine 500 mg
    Cysteine 500 mg
    Glutamine 1000 mg
    Colostrum 1000 mg
    Immunopro (1 scoop)

    This powerful cocktail gave me some results, but not enough in my opinion. What gave me really terrific results was Mucin (or Sialic Acid). When I took this supplement, I could feel that my gut was protected. I could feel heat emitting from my gut. I felt stronger physically. This heat is something I used to feel before I got sick. I read somewhere that Mucin Acid not only protects the gut, but it modulates the immune system. One of the reasons why we have ME/CFS is because our immune system is overactive.

    The one drawback from Mucin was the fact that it constipated me badly because it adds a thick coating to the intestines making the colon even smaller. I tried to take a smaller dosage of Mucin, and it somewhat worked. Like you want to take enough to coat your entire intestines completely, but if you mess up you will have to take supplements that dissolve mucus and start again. So, it is a lot of trial and error. Another problem is that I wonder if Mucin interferes with nutrient absorption. To get around the constipation issue, I want to try and take 500 mg of Apple Pectin with each meal, but I am tired of experimenting at this moment, maybe one of you guys can try it. Hopefully, the fiber will cause the colon to expand and will help the colon spacing to go back to its normal size with the thicken walls in place.

    I tried to look for a way to stimulate Mucin production in the body, but I couldn't find anything. Maybe one of guys could? I did find this for starters... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Acetylmannosamine Maybe one of you geniuses could find out more.

    We are one step closer guys, I can tell.
     
    Chriswolf, AnnaDove and Gondwanaland like this.
  2. South

    South Senior Member

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    I found some of the info on this link interesting. For example, vit D being useful against leaky gut.
    http://sanjosefuncmed.com/intestinal-permeability-clinical-unwinding-leaky-gut/

    The link includes reminders of avoiding sweet foods, (which I feel can feed bacterial overgrowth and candida), but some other info on the diet list on that link is a bit extreme, in my opinion.

    Anyway, might be some useful info on that page.

    If you do a search on Phx Rising for the word "leaky" you'll find other threads about this general topic.
    Another search to try is for the word "permeability" or "permeable", the scientific term used for leaky gut.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Which sialic acid supplement did you take? Was it the Ecological Formulas Sialex (Sialic Acid Concentrate)?


    I looked into sialic acid supplementation some time ago. I never got around to trying sialic acid, but made a few notes about it, which are as follows:

    Sialic acid refers to both a group of compounds in which N-acetylneuraminic acid (NANA or Neu5Ac) is the most common member; and the term sialic acid is also used to refer to NANA itself.

    • For a healthy 150 pound adult, 140 mg of N-acetylneuraminic acid is considered to be a safe dosage. 1

    N-acetylneuraminic acid may be helpful for reducing brain fog. 1

    • Dietary sialic acid supplementation improves learning and memory in piglets. 1

    • Sialic acid is an essential nutrient for brain development and cognition. 1

    • N-acetylneuraminic acid concentrations in human breast milk: 120 to 1400 mg per liter (highest just after birth, drops of rapidly two months later). 1 The brain and central nervous system contain considerable levels of sialic acid in infancy, it is considered to play important roles on the expression and development of their functions.

    • Sialic acid deficiency reduced the affinity of agonists to M2 muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. 1 2 One might speculate that this may conceivably have some significance for those with orthostatic hypotension (OH), as in OH, autoantibodies have been found that target the M2 muscarinic receptors, the M3 muscarinic receptors, the beta 1 adrenergic receptors, and the beta 2 adrenergic receptors. 1

    • Dietary lectins strip away the mucous coating to expose the naked mucous membrane layer (the epithelial cells), at least in rodent studies.

    • Sialic acid is also stripped off mucous membrane cells by the enzyme neuraminidase (aka sialidase) created by the influenza virus.

    • Pathogenic bacteria such as Streptococcus pneumoniae, Pseudomonas aeruginosa and Hemophilus influenzae also possess this enzyme neuraminidase, which is used to strip off the sialic acid from mucosal surfaces. Stripping off sialic acid from may help these bacteria colonize the gut and mucosa by exposing potential bacterial receptors that lie beneath the protective sialic acid coating. 1

    Some interesting excerpts from this paper:


    Sialic Acid In Foods: 1
    Code:
    SIALIC ACID CONCENTRATIONS IN FOODS
    
    Food          Sialic Acid      Of Which
                  Per 100 Grams    N-Acetylneuraminic Acid
    
    Eggs          64 mg           100%
    Pork          6.5 mg          14%
    Cooked ham    5.6 mg          ?
    Chicken       5.3 mg          0%
    Lamb          4.0 mg          33%
    Beef          1.7 mg          0%
    

    Eggs contain high levels of sialic acid (64 mg in a 100 grams of eggs), of which 57% was in the egg white. 1

    • 30 grams of egg albumen powder contains 154 mg of sialic acid.

    • The only sialic acid found in hen eggs is N-acetylneuraminic acid. 1

    Whey protein is a good source of sialic acid. AOR Advanced Whey contains 0.4% sialic acid (400 mg per 100 grams).

    Infant milk formulas have 70 mg/L of total sialic acid. 1

    • The probiotic Lactobacillus plantarum actually makes sialic acid. 1
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
    Chriswolf and helen1 like this.
  4. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    @Hip , I have used Sialex, Pioneer Nutritional Formulas Comprehensive Gut Health, and Wellness Resource GI Soother. Each of these supplements caused constipation based on dosage or continued usage. I think the constipation probably has to do with bioavailability or species incompatibility (Mucin is from whey, bovine source). I wonder if there is a way to get our body to synthesize its own Mucin instead of relying on an outside source. I am talking like the thick Mucin like I got from whey.

    Guys, I think the colostrum is working. My gut feels stronger after one day's dosage of 3000 mg, so I will give it some more time. However, the physical strength I got from Mucin was great and immediate.
     
  5. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    These Mucin supplements will probably work for you guys. We all react to things differently. I don't want to deter you guys from trying anything.
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You might consider trying supplements like high does magnesium (say 800 mg) which naturally tends to cause diarrhea. If you get the dose right, the laxative/diarrhea-provoking effects of magnesium may exactly counterbalance the constipation effects you had from sialic acid, and then your bowels will be fine. High dose magnesium is an excellent supplement for ME/CFS anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
    helen1 likes this.
  7. South

    South Senior Member

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    Butyric acid (butyrate is another name) increases mucin production in the gut:
    "Butyrate has gained much attention as it promotes mucosal restitution, induces differentiation, and inhibits inflammation"
    http://gut.bmj.com/content/52/10/1442.full

    If you want to explore butyrate, you could try the giant thread about Clostridium Butyricum
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/clostridium-butyricum-a-game-changer.37324/

    As for the constipation-reaction to things that might increase mucin:

    The types of fiber that are insoluble help my type of constipation -- interestingly, these are also the types that increase butyrate, (wheat bran) and are NOT famous fibers like guar gum and oat bran:
    "guar gum and oat bran, while highly fermentable, are associated with low butyrate levels in the distal colon, while wheat bran causes significantly higher concentrations."
    http://gut.bmj.com/content/34/3/386.short

    If I drink a large smoothie with a lot of whey protein in it (doesn't matter what brand of whey protein), I get constipation, but I can get away with small doses here and there. And yet, eating cheese does not constipate me. So it's not the entire category of "dairy" that is a problem for some people, just something in the whey, which might be that it increases mucin, and perhaps there is something negative about that mucin increase for some people. :thumbdown:
     
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  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Many cheeses are high in Tryptophan -> increases serotonin -> increases BMs.

    Whey creates an aminoacid unbalance antagonizing Tryptophan -> decreases serotonin -> decreases BMs.
     
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  9. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    To add on to this thought, whey protein, especially undenatured, has glycomacropeptides (GMPs) which is 6 to 8 percent sialic acid. I think when diary is further processed it loses some of its GMPs, which could explain why you don't get constipated. Or, it simply could just be lactose intolerance.

    If my experiment with colostrum doesn't work, then I am going to try GI Soother again, but with a dosage of 1 to 2 tsp and with 8 oz of water. Perhaps, 2 to 4 tsp in 4 oz of water is too concentrated. I am going to email the manufacturer.
     
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  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Whey has been causing me MAJOR constipation. I even started taking 5-Htp because of it.
     
  11. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    A histamine reaction to histidine could be another cause for constipation.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Interesting. But I just came from supplementing a whole month with B2, so histamine breakdown should be optimized right now.
     
  13. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
    Hi,
    What dose did you take of the sialex
     
  14. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    One capsule with one meal per day. I think you should take it slow with this supplement. Make sure you have mucus dissolving supplements on hand like Dr. Christopher's Bone and Tissue, Enzymedica MucoStop, or Serrapeptase in case you get backed up. Please report back your results mate! (Sorry, stupid American humor!)
     
  15. JAGuy

    JAGuy

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    Guys, let me emphasize the importance of having mucus dissolving supplements on hand... It is very important. It seems like when I took too much mucin the heat in my gut became unbearable and my adrenals became active. Equally important, the constipation will be unbearable.
     
  16. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    hi @Gondwanaland

    So, B2 breaks down or inhibits histamine? Maybe this is why it can be good for migraines. thx
     
  17. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    I couldn't tolerate butyrate supplements, and after reading this thread I'm wondering if it increased mucus in my gut... but maybe I'm mixing up mucin and mucus..

    I've read that ppl w fibro / cfs can have TOO MUCH mucin
     
  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Hi Beth

    It is a co-factor of the enzymes that break down amines (incl. serotonin).
    I certainly have too little because I hugely benefit from L-Glutamine.
     
    ebethc likes this.
  19. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland - my body loves glutamine :)
    How much do you take per day for leaky gut? Do you know if there's a danger of glutamine stimulating glutamate?

    Glutamine is great for my brain fog... do you have any idea why this is?

    thanks.
     
  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    http://www.aminoacid-studies.com/amino-acids/glutamine-and-glutamic-acid.html
     
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