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Fixing Leaky Gut Helps ME/CFS, and Sometimes Achieves Full Remission

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Hip, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. dadouv47

    dadouv47 Senior Member

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    Anyone improved leaky gut issues with hydrolyzed collagen powder? I couldn't tolerate bone broth :(
     
  2. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I tried hydrolyzed collagen a few weeks ago for the same reason. Unfortunately i didn't react well to it, i got very anxious and restless probably because of the high histamine and glutamate content. The same thing happens with freshly made bone broth.
    I want to try it again though, perhaps i already consumed too much glutamate and histamine that day and then the collagen powder spilled the bucket.
     
    dadouv47 and Helen like this.
  3. dadouv47

    dadouv47 Senior Member

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    I didn't know hydrolyzed collagen had so many histamine as well. I reacted pretty badly to bone broth and I thought it was because of histamine (maybe it was because it contains a lot of carbohydrates as well) and that's the reason why I switched to hydrolyzed collagen.
    I reacted pretty well on it compared to bone broth (no bloating and pain), but maybe I feel a bit restless as well, but I didn't think it came from the collagen :confused:
    Did you notice guts issues with the collagen?
    David
     
  4. dadouv47

    dadouv47 Senior Member

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    I only tried beef bone broth..Maybe I should try with chicken (I also made it with cartilage, which is bad for people with SIBO)

    I read that gelatin and hydrolyzed collagen powder are quite similar (maybe it's easier to digest the gelatin) Will see how I react with the collagen first...
    I thought there were way less histamine issues with gelatin/collagen powder but I don't know any more :depressed:
     
    Azriel likes this.
  5. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Hydrolyzed collagen is broken down so i think that's easier to digest.

    I had no gut problems with the hydrolyzed collagen.
     
    Azriel likes this.
  6. Starsister

    Starsister Senior Member

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    Just saw this thread and haven't read through whole thing but all the books I have on the subject have always said acidic ph caused by sugar, caffeine, starches and alcohol cause the Candida overgrowth which takes root in intestine causing the walls to be permeable (leaky gut)...In my case unchecked Candida and leaky gut caused chronic congestion, food allergies, fatigue..all kinds of things till I read about Candida in the early 90s. No doctors were dealing with it, even now, so I go on my anti Candida protocol, supplements and homeopathics to get my self a fighting chance at feeling better. Lots of books like "the yeast connection" etc.
     
  7. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    @dadouv47 and @Thinktank ,

    I just wanted to make sure you're both aware that refrigerating any cooked meat creates histamines within 24 hours, so it stands to reason that if there are refrigeration steps after the initial cooking of the meat, (including refrigerating the broth), that the intolerance you're experiencing could be due histamine sensitivity. (There would be levels of histamines that normal people would not react to). Perhaps if you started with raw bones and froze the product immediately any time you were not cooking it, you'd do better. Not certain, but a possibility.

    If you are inclined to try it again, I would suggest that you start with fresh raw bones, then follow your recipe, which probably goes something like: Boil briefly (blanch) to remove nasty stuff, drain, roast about 3 hours, then boil in fresh water to make your broth (24-48h). If you add veggies at the beginning, you'll remove them with the bones. Also, avoid adding tomatoes, tomatillos, peppers (except black peppercorns), spinach, eggplant, certain squash (chayote, spaghetti or butternut - I'm not sure which), and other veggies with naturally-occurring histamines.

    I found that it took a whole 4R program (2 years on step 1, 8 weeks of steps 2-4 simultaneously) to do serious gut healing. The lactulose-mannitol test will confirm whether your gut is still leaky or not - very worth the lab fee to me. (And, of course, I also needed to fast in order to decrease the histamine intolerance after the 4R program and test.)

    -Crit
     
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  8. Mirea

    Mirea

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    In autoimmune diseases first rule to heal leaky gut is to avoid gluten and all grains, there is an elimination diet called AIP to determine on what food groups we are sensitive to. I really would be curious to see what happens if people diagnosed with CFS/ME would try the AIP diet.

    In my case I was sensitive to gluten and corn, all other grains (oats, rice, etc.) I can tolerate well. But it was really important for me to avoid gluten AND corn, when I went only gluten-free I still felt ill. Only when I avoided corn as well I was finally on a healing path.

    So I know really well how tricky it can be to find out to which kinds of foods we are sensitive to.
     
    ebethc, ljimbo423 and MeSci like this.
  9. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Corn and gluten were pretty bad for me too. Problem is when I started going gluten free I increased the corn as an alternative to wheat, as I was unaware of the problem with it.
    In the next months instead of getting better I got worse until I finally noticed too many "coincidences" between eating corn-based food (such as pasta or corn cakes) and feeling more ill.

    These days I can tolerate small amounts of gluten but corn is still on the black list, possibly the worst offender of them all.

    Unfortunately while diet can help avoiding extra problems and reduce bad reactions, it doesn't fix issues such as ME. I've spent the past 18 years going through all sorts of elimination, rotation, anti-allergen, you-name-it diets... it surely helps finding out what food can worsen one's issues. But it's no fix :grumpy:
     
  10. Mirea

    Mirea

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    Yes, this was exactly how it was for me too! When I went gluten-free I ate a lot of the gluten-free pasta that is made out of 70% of corn flour, so first I was thinking gluten was not the problem for me. Only when I went on a grain-free diet and slowly reintroduced each grain was I able to determine that the culprit was corn AND gluten.

    I wasn't as courageous as you yet to try small amounts of gluten or corn again as I'm just enjoying the feeling of being healthy again after so many years. Maybe in a couple of months, but really I don't dare to think about it yet, lol.
     
    MeSci likes this.
  11. MaximilianKohler

    MaximilianKohler

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    vaer and Hip like this.
  12. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Hip

    Have you read that fish oil is either good or bad for leaky gut? I've read mixed things and don't know what the proverbial bottom line is...I've recently found some good quality, cheap fish oils w the right ratios, so I'd hate to lose yet another option for reducing inflammation..

    I've been taking 2 different fish oil supplements: one for cognition, itchy eyes, overall pain, sinus pressure/inflammation (DHA 75%, EPA 25%...2-4 grams per day) and one is for general inflammation, pain (EPA 75%, DHA 25% ... 1-3 grams per day).. Both supplements are molecularly distilled, cost effective and neither upsets my stomach


    ==

    @ljimbo423 , @Mirea , @PeterPositive

    Yes re gluten and corn... corn is in SO much, too... I switched to tapioca derived vitamin c and it's been great for breaking down histamine... big help w the constant "allergy" feeling (itchy throat/eyes, swelling in sinuses/throat).. the brand I use is Ecological Formulas, but I'm sure there are others...
     
    MeSci and ljimbo423 like this.
  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I have not come across anything about fish oil for leaky gut.
     
    ebethc likes this.
  14. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Hi ebethc - I don't know for sure that fish oil is good for a leaky gut but it makes sense that it would be. It is anti-inflammatory and I think leaky gut is associated with low grade chronic inflammation.

    I just started taking fish oil and curcumin for leaky gut and general inflammation, in the last couple of weeks and feel noticeably better for it.:)

    I'm taking 3 gms a day of epa/dha (6 gms of fish oil) and 500mg a day of curcumin.

    Jim
     
    ebethc likes this.
  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    thanks ... good to know

    btw, the DHA/EPA I take is
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MXG1G2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    and the EPA/DHA is this one
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015L2LBE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    both really pure and cheap! no fish burps of upset tummy
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  16. vaer

    vaer

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    [QUOTE="dadouv47, post: 895697, member: 24640"(I also made it with cartilage, which is bad for people with SIBO)
    [/QUOTE]

    it is suggested to use Marrow bone for SIBO

    (cartilage is high fodmap)
     

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