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Fixing Leaky Gut Helps ME/CFS, and Sometimes Achieves Full Remission

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Hip, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Some people are sensitive to buckwheat. I seemed to react to it, so cut it out. Some people don't seem to tolerate some other things that may be used to substitute for grain, such as legumes. I try not to have too much of those. So maybe if you don't improve (or get worse) you could search for info on things that you have increased or substituted so see if it is common to be sensitive to them.
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    end Senior Member

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    Peter, if you have severe Blasto chances are you have Leaky Gut Syndrome which tends to make you react to ANY substance ingested(Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride GAPS)hence the reason for "rotation diets" some use. There are also some(Dr Kevin Cahill)who believe parasites do not invade by them selves "parasites bring friends"

    Like you my sIgA is near non-existant in stool and saliva. Very low sIgA is often linked to Leaky Gut Syndrome so like I have done multiple times testing with the lactulose/mannitol or Intestinal Permeability(indicated severe IP in myself)test might be worthwhile

    A note on fiber Dr Leo Galland in his book "The Four Pillars Of Healing" has said cellulose is the most effective/tolerated fiber to use in relation to intestinal permeability. With personal experience I can more then agree with his Observations. He has helped formulate several intestinal permeability products which some include cellulose for Nutricology he is also considered the world's leader in intestinal permeability and related illness

    There are of course conflicting views and what I have learnt from this forum is that what works in one patient does NOT always work in another

    Good luck
    PeterPositive likes this.
  3. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Yeah, I have no doubt that my poor intestine is pretty leaky... sometimes it feels like it has pretty big holes in it :(

    Years ago I was having lots of difficulties taking oral magnesium in any form ( I tried 10 at least ) with dosages higher than 100mg (which isn't much). It would cause lots of irritation, like putting salt on a bleeding wound.

    I then was suggested to try foot baths and they worked a little bit better but, to my horror, I would often times get a salty taste in my mouth after soaking for more than 6-7 minutes! I have no idea how that happens but it also happened when I was taking a stroll on the beach soaking my feet in the salty sea water.
    My doc suggested that it might be due to a leaky gut. I guess it's more colander gut! :rolleyes:
    end likes this.
  4. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    so im guessing then that leaky gut is basically a loss of the mucous membrane that coats the whole interior of the gut and that nowt can pass through that without being acted on by the beneficial microbes?
  5. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Yes, that's how I get it. Also the intestinal walls aren't no longer working well as a barrier against possibly harmful substances. For example it seems that certain peptides from the breakdown of gluten and casein can get into the bloodstream and trigger auto-immune reactions, etc...
  6. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    yes i was actually going to mention whole proteins entering the system due to loss of membrane covering. whole proteins entering the spinal fluid, which is "decanted" from the blood i believe, is potentially one of the causes of neuro-inflammation. also, it seems, any poorly digested starches will also degrade to acids which enter they system through the leaky gut promoting further loss of health. vicious cycle once you're locked in as potentially most things you eat will add to the problem.
    ---
    i always recommend the "hay" food combining diet. no concentrated starches with concentrated proteins. all foods are allowed in this diet so you have to tailor it. i think diet is key for me.
    PeterPositive likes this.
  7. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    The first posting in this thread defines leaky gut and provides a good background. The holes are microscopic.
    manna and end like this.
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    end Senior Member

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    Very true @Hip does a great job in his opening post describing IP

    I would encourage re-reading the beginning of this thread

    A point worth mentioning is that the "carrier proteins" with-in the GUT lining are also damaged with IP which often results in mineral malabsorption. At the same time like previously eluded to, there is an increased absorption of "toxins" along with the decreased absorption of nutrients sets the stage for a cascade of negative effects

    Holistically speaking "Deficiency and Toxicity" has been implicated in many serious degenerative conditions

    Although not very detailed at all this photo does help visualise the GUT lining

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
    manna likes this.
  9. end

    end Senior Member

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    Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride does a wonderful job at explaining exactly why starches and other foods are detrimental to the GUT in her book "Gut And Phycology Syndrome" highly recommend reading

    I have always found "food combining" helpful also
    PeterPositive and manna like this.
  10. Gingergrrl43

    Gingergrrl43 Senior Member

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    Great thread and I will soon be doing the Leaky Gut test with my ND. I suspect that it may be part of my problem b/c I have major stomach/digestive issues. Thanks for all the info.
  11. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost

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    @end : Yes, I have been feeling better- not without occasional set-backs, but with tremendous improvement! :) I stand by everything I have said in this forum- esp. with the chicken broth and nystatin. I am writing a mini-book about the protocol that is healing me and helping me manage, at least until there is an anti-viral drug to eradicate this thing once and for all. I will let you know when I have it published on Amazon. Good luck to everyone here and God bless!
    end likes this.
  12. Gingergrrl43

    Gingergrrl43 Senior Member

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    It turns out that I do have leaky gut (who knew?) and my husband and ND feel that this is a major piece of the CFS puzzle. They said that 80% of our immunity comes from our gut so if bad things are leaking out, it could be making us sick. At first I thought this was silly and unrelated b/c my problems are viral, mitochondria/energy not working, and cardiac/tachycardia/POTS related. I felt my stomach issues were minor in comparison.

    However, now I wonder if the viruses leak out of your gut into the bloodstream and affect other organs. I am now doing multiple stomach treatments with my ND and this thread has further enforced that I am on the right track. Thank you for the info.

    @end or @Adlyfrost , can you explain what you meant about chicken broth and nystatin? I am confused (and intrigued!)
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    end Senior Member

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    @Gingergrrl43

    There's info here on putting a bone broth together - http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/bone-broths.27821/#post-425186

    There's info regarding GAPS like previously mentioned and the connection with our GUT and our physiology here - http://www.doctor-natasha.com

    McBrides book "Gut And Phycology Syndrome" like previously mentioned is a recommended read

    Gut And Physiology Syndrome is also currently being written

    Nilstatin is an antifungal which has been helpful for a lot of people. Each practitioner/patient has there own method and/or theories regarding yeast and Gut ecology and/or treatments
  14. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost

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    @Gingergrrl43 : I have found drinking chicken broth on empty stomach gets rid of the virus when it is hanging around in the mild chronic stages but it only works for me when I completely avoid sugar, most solid food, or any fruits and veggies with natural sugar. It takes 1-2weeks to see results for me, and must be kept up daily indefinitely.

    The broth is simple- get a whole cooked chicken, put it in a pot with water and a little onions and celery for flavor, boil and after 2 hours start drinking. Simmer for a total of about 7 hours (doesn't have to be at once) or until the meat tastes like cardboard and the cartilage is liquified- drink throughout cooking and add water when needed. (You can add spices of course too).

    The nystatin I discovered when I decided to make my geographic tongue an indicator of gut health. For example, if my tongue was covered in white gunk with red inflamed lines beneath, I figured my gut may look similar. Nystatin in conjunction with broth greatly helped but it took months to get my tongue to clear up before I could go off nystatin.

    I may have to start Nystatin again because I am very susceptible to yeast in the gut- which impairs the body's ability to fight the enterovirus(es), and yeast can cause CFS in its own right.

    I try to take the broth daily. If I skip 2 days the nausea starts coming back, I get panic attacks at night- after a week the malaise and flu-like symptoms come back. For me chicken broth is my lifeblood. However when I had the virus in more acute stages with fever and symptoms where I was bed-ridden, I could feel the chicken broth doing very little. At that point I probably needed antivirals but in absence of a doctor took immune modulators which stimulated an autoimmune response and caused other problems. It took months to get out of bed.

    I hope I never go back to that again. So far the chicken broth and nystatin seem to be the best preventatives (as long as I also do not eat much solid or any sweet food). Also antiviral supplements like oregano oil and vitamin C.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  15. Gingergrrl43

    Gingergrrl43 Senior Member

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    @Adlyfrost Thanks for all the info and my husband cooks bone broth from grass fed beef which sounds similar to what you do with the chicken broth.
    Adlyfrost likes this.

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