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Fixing Leaky Gut Helps ME/CFS, and Sometimes Achieves Full Remission

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Hip, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Not familiar with it, sorry. I haven't been following the methylation threads so didn't even know what 5-MTHF was - had to do a search. A forum search for 'tetrahydrofolate meirleir' produces 6 hits. Maybe one of those will relate to what you want.
  2. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    @MeSci could not remember the spelling of his name, so thanks for that.
  3. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    The long and short of this, is it depends what is causing your gut issues.
    If you are under-methylated, then beans lower absorption of MethylFolate, for many other issues they are helpful. I went semi-vegetarian some years ago and found my gut reacted badly when I first ate a lot of beans, but I was much more healthy once my gut got used to 'em.

    Personally, I find my health responds much better when I eat plenty of firm beans (e.g. black eye beans) and other legumes. I know some people just can't tolerate them.

    I tend to find if a dietary option is going to work better, I either know immediately, or at most within a few days.
  4. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Treid the same search and got one hit LOL, c'est la view I guess.
  5. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I just did it again and got 9, but that now includes these 3 messages. Are you using the search box on the top right? When I said 'forum search' I meant a search of all the forums rather than just this one, viz. unticking the box that says 'search this forum only'.
  6. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Tried one search, got the wrong stuff, then searched again.
    It seems to have'searched my 'search results'.

    I repeated from the home page and got the same result as you. Did not find the bit of research though sadly. will come back to it another time.
  7. finalgates

    finalgates

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    NSAIDS cause leaky gut.even acetaminophen?
  8. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Looks like it from this very technical paper.

    I would guess that occasional small doses would be quite safe. I take about 7 tablets a week that contain 500 mg acetaminophen (paracetamol) and 8 mg codeine phosphate, but I seem to tolerate it OK gut-wise. Maybe the codeine helps to offset the acetaminophen?
  9. end

    end Senior Member

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    @Adlyfrost

    I could not agree more on multiple points. I have come to the same basic conclusion, as my CFS mainly having a viral and/or intestinal viral infection trigger and/or cause.

    I think it's also interesting that you haven't been on the forum since late last year - may indicate your feeling better :)
    Adlyfrost and Beyond like this.
  10. kyzcreig

    kyzcreig

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    @Hip

    It sounds like you have trouble with similar foods/chemicals as myself. I had a lot of success when I cut out chloramines a few years ago. Generally I too do better on a paleo diet. How is your leaky gut progress coming?

    In my own case I've found improving glutathione and downregulating ONOO to be helpful. You can read a bit more about that here:
    http://sanjosefuncmed.com/intestinal-permeability-clinical-unwinding-leaky-gut/ (references at bottom)
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  11. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That interesting. What sort of improvements in symptoms did you noticed from removing chloramines from your drinking water? (You might want to answer this question on the chloramine thread).

    In my case, cutting out chloramines significantly improved by IBS-D in a matter of days.
  12. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    healing leaky gut is probably my prime objective. i use diet and pulsors mainly. pretty much achieved it a couple of times but the vase wasn't set and it cracked. kind of makes still being ill a bit of a grater when i was so close. its not easy to do but, for me, the addition of sleeping with 3 pulsors on my body, 2 either side of my navel, steered the balance in my favour.

    i'll share my diet::
    day 1
    quinoa (cooked as a porridge) plus boiled fennel for breakfast
    baked sweet potatoe, coconut butter/oil, little salt and boiled fennel for lunch
    chopped and boiled courgettes, raw sprouted mung beans and sprouted fenugreek with boiled and lightly grilled lamb liver

    day 2
    slightly sprouted amaranth (cooked as a porridge) and boiled celery
    baked butternut squash, sea salt, ghee and boiled celery
    boiled leeks, raw sprouted brown lentils and fenugreek and lamb liver (all organic)

    one difficulty i find with this particular diet im doing is when the sweet pots or butternut squash are too starchy. if i overdo the starch its like being punched in the solar plexus for a day, not nice.

    it might sound a little dull but it tastes great to me. it uses the hay combining diet; which is no concentrated proteins with concentrated starches, like fish and chips or rice and chicken. it helps with indigestion and acid reflux which can be caused by starches fermenting proteins. its gotta be organic i think, especially if its plain food. i have tried non-organic butternut squash and found it to be inedible and probably needing various condiments, oils and flavouring to mask that fact.

    like myself, some folk may benefit from avoiding cruciferous veg. i would prefer to have a 3 day rotational diet but there isn't enough food i can handle to do that. still, i find i can move forward on the above even though i'm a liitle allergic to celery and leeks.

    i drink pure water with no chloramines.

    i've noted a decent improvement in saliva quality and flow since inclining my bed, plus a few other things digestion wise, so am hoping thats gonna make it easier.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  13. kyzcreig

    kyzcreig

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    Tachycardia, headache and bloating. And then fatigue and poor sleep following the next day.
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    And how quickly did these symptoms resolve once you cut out chloramines from your drinking water?

    In the case of my IBS-D, my diarrhea symptoms were significantly improved within two days of cutting out cloramines. So the results I experienced manifested quickly.
  15. kyzcreig

    kyzcreig

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    Some mix of those symptoms still occur depending on what I eat. But I noticed benefits immediately, within a day actually.
    Hip likes this.
  16. malk

    malk

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    Hello all, I read this thread with heavy interest, thanks for all the valuable postings. I want to mention recourses which may be of help:

    http://www.doctor-natasha.com/ The book was already mentioned here. This book describes very detailed the leaky gut phenomenon. It is the most detailed book on that matter I came across. Also it provides a detailed strategy to heal the leaky gut including recepies (e.g. meat stock/ bone broth). It was written for ADHD, dyslexiia and autism sufferers but if we follow the argumentation here that this is applicable for CFS/ME too there are many valuable explanations in it. For example why stomach acid is usually low, which brobiotics to take, why meat stock is so healthy (inc. recepies), what to avoid, which medication is recommended (not much), why leaky gut has severe consequences on brain+ allergies and immune system, why vegetarism might not work when having leaky gut. And most important she claims to have helped many patients, so it seems her recommended strategy really helps, but I have to warn you it is very detailed, time consuming, long (at least 2 years) and strict.

    Since Palaeo was mentioned here also, which is similar to GAPS here is a quick comparison http://www.phoenixhelix.com/2013/01/18/comparison-of-3-healing-diets/
    Also there is a more strict regime of Palaeo for autoimmun disorders http://autoimmune-paleo.com/

    Two years ago I was on heavy Palaeo/GAPS without having known the books just because I could not tolerate vegetables (firbres, allergies) and I avoided any carbs (esp. gluten) due to allergies and intolerance. I had significant success with my ADHS symptoms and belly problems. At that time I also had a light CFS/ME issue which was slightly improved but was cured by something esle (fixing my jaw problems). Unfortunately now i am back to gut problems so I try to implement the diet again.

    By the way since L-glutamine was mentioned here for gut cure. According to Amy Yasko people with neorological inflamation shall not take it because it increases glutamate levels. I know one at least one woman in a german forum who has severe CFS/ME who can not tolerate any L-glutamin.
    end likes this.
  17. end

    end Senior Member

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    L Glutamine powder combines with stomach acid and forms 'Amines' which can be toxic to many of us. Enteric coating is needed and is what I have used.

    L Glutamine powder causes a anxiety/neuro reaction in me.
  18. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    L-Glutamine is converted to Glutamate generating a little energy in the process - this is thought to be one of the causes of anxiety in ME patients.
    As you rightly point out it also contains Ammonia this depletes BH4 needed for Neurotransmitter production.
    end likes this.
  19. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I had severe anxiety disorder as a result, I posit here, of chronic neuroinflammation causing high glutamate levels in the brain; however, taking high doses of L-glutamine (for example, 15 grams of glutamine powder daily) did not worsen my anxiety symptoms, and in fact if anything I found this high dose glutamine had a calming effect on my generalized anxiety disorder. This is probably because glutamine has anti-inflammatory effects, and thus may reduce brain inflammation, which in turn should reduce glutamate release in the brain. So I suggest that you don't exclude glutamate on theoretical grounds, because you might try and find it to be fine.

    As for ammonia: "L-glutamine helps protect the body against ammonia toxicity by transporting ammonia, in the form of L-glutamine's amide group, from peripheral tissues to visceral organs, where it can be excreted as ammonium by the kidneys or converted to urea by the liver." Ref: here.
  20. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    There is interconversion between glutamine and glutamate depending on other variables.

    I have had a significant reduction in anxiety since starting my gut-healing diet and supplements two years ago, the supplements including 8-10g l-glutamine a day, taken as recommended in water about 30-60 mins before meals (thus, for me, in 4 doses a day).

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