Fivefold to eightfold increase in the incidence of ME from 1980 to 1989

[caledonia]

Would you have any references for that?

I think possibly in David Hammond's book Mercury Poisoning: The Undiagnosed Epidemic. If not in that, then in Andrew Hall Cutler's book, Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment.

If you look at this article:
Is there an association between exposure to chemicals and chronic fatigue syndrome? Review of the evidence
it says:

In other words, just because mercury poisoning can produce fatigue, that does not imply that mercury is linked to triggering ME/CFS.

Also note that dentists and dental assistants have exposure levels to mercury vapor much higher than the general population. But there is no epidemic of ME/CFS in the dental profession, as far as I am aware.

Of course if you had both mercury poisoning and ME/CFS, and you detoxified mercury, you might feel less fatigue by reducing the component of your fatigue that comes from mercury.

Some people tolerate higher levels of mercury than others due to having a genetically better detox system. The ones that don't tolerate mercury drop out of the profession early. (source Cutler's book)

However, I have heard of there being a much higher rate of suicide in the dental profession - depression being another symptom of mercury toxicity.

There are other metals which produce fatigue besides mercury - also lead and arsenic. Unfortunately, I have all three of those metals. All three of them are ubiquitous in our environment.

When mercury combines with other metals, it makes them something like 14 times more toxic. So it doesn't take large amounts. It's the combination of small amounts of many things adding up to a much larger effect. There is also a synergistic effect among organochemicals (formaldehyde, benzene, pesticides, etc.) and a synergistic effect of mercury on those chemicals.

All of them do various bad things to the methylation cycle, detox cycle, ATP, etc. and can cause widespread issues in the body. ME/CFS being only one of many bad things that can happen depending on your genetics or combination of exposures. Think about the rise in chronic and subclinical illnesses, as well as cancer - autism, depression, anxiety, hypothyroidism, adrenal fatigue, ME/CFS, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, IBS, etc. etc.

I skimmed the study you listed. (Good find by the way!) It's a literature review. I don't really have the wherewithal right now to look at the mercury studies referenced, but off the top of my head, I would say that it's difficult to determine if someone has mercury toxicity, unless you use Cutler's method of hair testing and looking for disordered mineral status, not the level of mercury in hair, blood or urine.

Of course, you can also take a history such as, do or did you have amalgams, eat a lot of tuna and things like that. However, people can be exposed and not know it, such as acquiring their mother's body burden.

So I would contend that there is a lot more mercury toxicity than people think there is.

It would be interesting to do a study on a group of people with ME/CFS and use Cutler's hair test and interpretation and see what percent have disordered mineral status. I don't think that's ever been done.

 

[Hip]

However, I have heard of there being a much higher rate of suicide in the dental profession - depression being another symptom of mercury toxicity.

Mercury exposure well could play a role in the higher rates of depression in the dental profession (though note that I think dentists will also be more exposed to respiratory viruses, since they are in close contact with their patient's saliva, and we know that many viruses can have neurological effects; these days however dentists usually wear face masks to prevent the spread of respiratory pathogens).

Though the fact that dentists have been shown to have higher rates of depression, quite possibly through mercury exposure, but not higher rates of ME/CFS, only underlines the fact that mercury does not seem to play a role in ME/CFS.

I don't really have the wherewithal right now to look at the mercury studies referenced

Have you come across https://sci-hub.io, a sort of Robin Hood scientific reference website? If you put the doi reference of a paper normally behind a paywall into the sci-hub search field, it gives you the full paper.

 

[Hip]

One idea that I had that might explain the increase in ME/CFS incidence from the 1980s onwards is the sexual revolution, and the change to more liberal values, that occurred from the late 1960s onwards.

I could not find much data on this, but if, since the late 1960s, people are having more amorous relationships with more people (ie, there is an increase in the total number of boyfriends/girlfriends, brief affairs or one-night stands that the average person has), then this could be a pathway by which respiratory viruses are more easily spread, simply via kissing.

I caught the respiratory virus that appeared to trigger my ME/CFS from kissing on a date, so that's what made me think of this idea.

If, since the late 1960s and throughout the 1970s, the average person was having an increased number of amorous interactions with different people, then via kissing this might create a pathway for increased circulation of respiratory viruses in the general population, which then a decade later in the 1980s may manifest as a higher incidence of ME/CFS.

One of the main viruses linked to ME/CFS, enterovirus, spreads by respiratory secretions.

 

[caledonia]

Mercury exposure well could play a role in the higher rates of depression in the dental profession (though note that I think dentists will also be more exposed to respiratory viruses, since they are in close contact with their patient's saliva, and we know that many viruses can have neurological effects; these days however dentists usually wear face masks to prevent the spread of respiratory pathogens).

Though the fact that dentists have been shown to have higher rates of depression, quite possibly through mercury exposure, but not higher rates of ME/CFS, only underlines the fact that mercury does not seem to play a role in ME/CFS.

Have you come across https://sci-hub.io, a sort of Robin Hood scientific reference website? If you put the doi reference of a paper normally behind a paywall into the sci-hub search field, it gives you the full paper.

I know, it's contradictory information. I suppose it's possible there is more ME/CFS among dental personnel, it just hasn't been documented. It would be good to see data about all disease rates among dental personnel, as there are many diseases associated with mercury toxicity, not just ME/CFS.

Thanks for the link to Sci Hub. I had just found out about it recently but forgot to bookmark it, so I lost it again. I made sure to bookmark it this time

 

[Hip]

as there are many diseases associated with mercury toxicity, not just ME/CFS.

I tend to think mercury is a bit of a red herring. It is a toxin that for some reason the general public have focused on, and blame it for all sorts of ills, including blaming the mercury in vaccines for the autism epidemic. However, even after mercury was removed from most childhood immunizations as a result of public pressure, autism rates continue to rise.

There are hundreds of other significant environmental toxins. These should be equally considered.

 

[brenda]

I agree that pesticides are a hidden problem and likely cause of many cases of CFS.

After a severe chronic exposure, my up until then mild/moderate me became much worse to severe level but l had no idea that the Carbamate spray used in my home had causes the deterioration. Many public places are regularly sprayed, hotel rooms and some air flights.

I don't know whether there has been increased usage during the 80's mine was in 1989. I do think that diet has been important due to additives and use of oils high in omega 6, slowly worsening the health of many people with detoxification snp's.

Dr Richardson of Newcastle saw his patients free of charge you know. A lovely kind man. He tested me and found some chemicals in my blood.

 

[caledonia]

I tend to think mercury is a bit of a red herring. It is a toxin that for some reason the general public have focused on, and blame it for all sorts of ills, including blaming the mercury in vaccines for the autism epidemic. However, even after mercury was removed from most childhood immunizations as a result of public pressure, autism rates continue to rise.

There are hundreds of other significant environmental toxins. These should be equally considered.

I used to think that, but it is clearly a major player in my case.

 

[Hip]

I used to think that, but it is clearly a major player in my case.

It's certainly worth exploring. The forum poll you set up found that 10% ME/CFS patients experienced a major improvement after mercury / heavy metal chelation, so chelation seems to help some ME/CFS patients.

 

[Rvanson]

I've done some research on lead removal. It has a 22 year half life if you don't do anything.

You need to take DMPS or DMSA to chelate lead. The chelators need to be taken on a frequent dose schedule according to their half life or the lead will redistribute instead of coming out, causing more issues.

Vitamin C will help recycle oxidized glutathione back to reduced glutathione. (Glutathone being the body's major antioxidant and detoxifier.)

If you're only doing vit. C, I think you're going to be waiting a long time for the lead to come out.

See the Cutler protocol for more information.

Well, I was taking vitamin C long before it was popular, back when leaded gasoline was still around, the major source
of lead in humans besides leaded paints, so as I understand it, it helps to keep it in the bloodstream and excreted, before it leeches into the brain and bones. My hair samples have come back very low in lead and cadmium both.

Yes, if one has a major heavy metal load, then I agree that chelation is the best way to go, although it's not without side-effects. What really bothers me is why dentists in most western countries are still using so-called "silver" Mercury amalgams to fill cavities with. Its a complete lie what they tell their patients, who trust in their dentists, that it's safe..

This substance should be banned as soon as possible, as it is in some European countries. The ADA knows that Mercury is toxic to humans in very small amounts, so they keep using the "silver fillings" nomenclature when speaking on these awful destroyers of good health. Lead, in an adult in less toxic then Mercury by far, which is toxic in even very minute exposure in many susceptible adults.Gold used to be the standard tooth filling, and was non-toxic to humans.

 

[Hip]

This substance should be banned as soon as possible, as it is in some European countries.

If you ban mercury amalgams, you should also ban tinned and fresh tuna. In this post I indicate that you would get over 5 times more mercury neurotoxicity from a once weekly 70 gram (2.5 oz) tuna fish portion than from your amalgam fillings.

 

[Rvanson]

Well in this thread we are specifically looking for environmental factors that could play a causal role in the development of ME/CFS, and in particular, factors that were introduced or increased during the 1980s that might explain the reported huge rise in ME/CFS cases during that decade.

Understood. When the petroleum companies switched to MTBE, the smell while filling my vehicles became quite
nasty, unlike the leaded gasoline and now the ethanol gasoline, which is 90 percent gasoline and 10 percent ethanol.
I am going to do some more research into MTBE, since it was indeed in use during this time frame, in gasoline.

 

[Fatigued247]

I do think there might be a connection to all the stuff they are spraying on veggies, even if you don't eat it I'm sure it gets in the air and we breathe it in. As far as I have read there's not reliable way to detox from this either

 

[Hip]

I am going to do some more research into MTBE, since it was indeed in use during this time frame, in gasoline.

Apparently MTBE (methyl tert-butyl ether) could be responsible for the decline in sparrow and blackbird populations in the UK (see here). It may not affect the birds directly, but may kill the insects they eat.

Over 20 states in the US and Denmark in the EU have banned the use of MTBE in petrol. 1 There are concerns it may be linked to tumors of the kidneys, liver, testicles, and some other organs. 1

MTBE was first used in petrol (gasoline) at low levels in the US in 1979. MTBE usage grew in the early 1980's.

However, if you look at the graph below of MTBE production over time, it peaked in 1997. If MTBE were linked to the increased incidence of ME/CFS, presumably you would expect to see the highest incidences of ME/CFS in the mid-1990s.

MTBE Production Over Time

 

[caledonia]

What really bothers me is why dentists in most western countries are still using so-called "silver" Mercury amalgams to fill cavities with. Its a complete lie what they tell their patients, who trust in their dentists, that it's safe..

This substance should be banned as soon as possible, as it is in some European countries. The ADA knows that Mercury is toxic to humans in very small amounts, so they keep using the "silver fillings" nomenclature when speaking on these awful destroyers of good health. Lead, in an adult in less toxic then Mercury by far, which is toxic in even very minute exposure in many susceptible adults.Gold used to be the standard tooth filling, and was non-toxic to humans.

It's political. In the 1800's the original dental association was against using mercury. The newly formed ADA promoted use of mercury fillings and eventually became the winner of the battle.

From what I've read dentists are not allowed to say mercury fillings are dangerous or they can lose their license.

In the 90's there was a big expose on 60 Minutes (I think it was) that made the public aware. A lot less dentists use it nowadays as a matter of course. But the ADA still holds to their stance that it's safe.

So basically it's a scandal as big as the tobacco industry, if not worse.

Banning dangerous chemicals like mercury and BPA, and also GMOs is one area where European countries are way ahead of the US.

 

[Rvanson]

It's political. In the 1800's the original dental association was against using mercury. The newly formed ADA promoted use of mercury fillings and eventually became the winner of the battle.

From what I've read dentists are not allowed to say mercury fillings are dangerous or they can lose their license.

In the 90's there was a big expose on 60 Minutes (I think it was) that made the public aware. A lot less dentists use it nowadays as a matter of course. But the ADA still holds to their stance that it's safe.

So basically it's a scandal as big as the tobacco industry, if not worse.

Banning dangerous chemicals like mercury and BPA, and also GMOs is one area where European countries are way ahead of the US.

Yeah I agree with that 100 percent. US companies and corporations are allowed to get away with just about anything
for many years. Its only become worse over time, not better, at least not in the US. Hopefully that will change soon.

Going back to the leaded gasoline, I read the story on its use in the US, at least. At the time, the 1920's, alcohol was banned for consumption during Prohibition, even though it raised octane levels in gasoline. The founder of the Ethyl Corporation became quite ill when he spilled some pure tetraethyl lead on his skin, where it is absorbed quite quickly. Yet it was adopted for use, but just barely made it, as no one questions that lead is toxic, unlike mercury is for fillings.

It took an act of congress to stop production of non-commercial use of lead in the paints used in homes, but I am still pretty sure that it is used for maritime and in some commercial uses as it actually does make paint last much longer..

Another secret, that many suspect, is that DES (Diethylstilbestrol) used from 1940 to 1971 mostly to "prevent" miscarriages, not only causes many ills in women that _are_ recognized, but to men who were exposed in utero to
DES as well. Unfortunately, almost no studies have involved males who have increased cases of prostate cancer
infertility, and other issues, likely due to this drug, having not been been done. Like Mercury, this has to be addressed.

 

[taniaaust1]

Outbreaks are a different thing. And in fact, outbreaks themselves probably don't affect the yearly incidence figures very much, because you probably get around one or two hundred new cases of ME/CFS occurring in an outbreak, but the total number of new cases that you will get in a country like the UK each year will be around a couple of thousand.

So the cases from a local outbreak will be small in comparison to the total sporadic new cases from across the whole country.

Im not refering to outbreaks of just 1-3 hundred people.. 1-2 hundred people outbreaks of ME just wouldnt probably be even reported. The reported ME outbreaks are generally from over 600 to many thousands affected and they have occurred all over the world around the same time period . so more a epidemic of ME. One of the Adelaide ones had 600 people affected in the outbreak. (I cant remember if the second one was more then that).

"We had them starting here in 1948 and 1949, two outbreaks in Adelaide."

And then that one was followed by if my memory is correct by the outbreak in Western Australia (was it around 1953? 1954) and then the outbreak in Royal Free Hospital (1955). If anyone really studies these outbreaks one can see it was actually an epidemic going on at the time which spread about the world.

If you are going to talk about what actually is the cause of ME, one cant really put these outbreaks in a different box. ME is ME. Interestingly many ME outbreaks have happened around the time of polio outbreaks in places.

The only way I can see that an outbreak might have a nationwide (or even global) effect is if the outbreak introduces a new virus into circulation, and then as that virus spreads to the whole country, it causes increased ME/CFS incidence across the nation. Though I have never seen any evidence of that happening.

You should if you can do more research into this area.. many of these outbreaks have been written about and were studied.

Environmental factors such as chemical exposure tend to be linked with specific diseases. For example, organophosphate pesticides have been specifically linked to ME/CFS, Parkinson's disease, and Gulf War Illness.

Ive never heard of outbreaks of MS or Parkinson's Disease.

 

[Hip]

The reported ME outbreaks are generally from over 600 to many thousands affected and they have occurred all over the world around the same time period . so more a epidemic of ME. One of the Adelaide ones had 600 people affected in the outbreak. (I cant remember if the second one was more then that)

Looking at this list of ME/CFS and similar outbreaks since 1934, it details the Adelaide 1949-1953 outbreak quite well (though that outbreak looks more like a poliomyelitis variation, and everyone seemed to completely recover from their ME/CFS-like symptoms, according to that webpage). The Adelaide outbreak certainly seems to have a large number of cases.

For the Royal Free Hospital London 1955 outbreak, 200 cases were documented. Ref: 1

However, you also find outbreaks on that list like the Rosedale Hospital, California 1989 outbreak, with just 11 cases of ME/CFS among staff.

Unfortunately for most outbreaks on the list, they do not give the number of cases.

Ive never heard of outbreaks of MS or Parkinson's Disease.

There are lots of diseases where you don't get outbreaks, but where you sometimes get clusters. A disease cluster is where there is a higher prevalence of the disease in a particular geographic location.

Disease clusters are generally assume to be caused by some local environmental influence, such as perhaps a factory emitting toxic pollutants (though they may also be just caused by chance).

 

[Rvanson]

Im not refering to outbreaks of just 1-3 hundred people.. 1-2 hundred people outbreaks of ME just wouldnt probably be even reported. The reported ME outbreaks are generally from over 600 to many thousands affected and they have occurred all over the world around the same time period . so more a epidemic of ME. One of the Adelaide ones had 600 people affected in the outbreak. (I cant remember if the second one was more then that).

"We had them starting here in 1948 and 1949, two outbreaks in Adelaide."

And then that one was followed by if my memory is correct by the outbreak in Western Australia (was it around 1953? 1954) and then the outbreak in Royal Free Hospital (1955). If anyone really studies these outbreaks one can see it was actually an epidemic going on at the time which spread about the world.

If you are going to talk about what actually is the cause of ME, one cant really put these outbreaks in a different box. ME is ME. Interestingly many ME outbreaks have happened around the time of polio outbreaks in places.




You should if you can do more research into this area.. many of these outbreaks have been written about and were studied.



Ive never heard of outbreaks of MS or Parkinson's Disease.

No, neither have I.

Parkinson's Disease does seem to inordinately effect people who have used illegal substances in the past, much
like Micheal J. Fox's recreational use of cocaine back in the 1980's, when it was very "hip" to do so. But for every
MJF, lots of cocaine users suffer no long term side effects. Then you have folks with PD, who never used cocaine.

As for outbreaks of CFS/ME, wasn't there only about 200 people involved in the "Yuppie Flu" case in Incline Village,
back in the 1980's?

 

[Valentijn]

"Yuppie Flu"

Please don't use derogatory slurs. And it's "ME" or "ME/CFS", not "CFS/ME".

 

[Hip]

Please don't use derogatory slurs.

I think @Rvanson was simply alluding to the way ME/CFS was often dismissively referred to in newspapers in the 1980s. "Yuppie flu" was mentioned in this earlier post.