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First try at Active Protocol and have questions.

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by JasonUT, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    @JasonUT Here's to hoping your low aldosterone....low adrenal function is caused by insufficient B vitamins rather than some other agent. Making sure your body has sufficient nutrients for adrenal function and enough to support the HPA axis is a good square one step. However you can see why it's a good idea to check out other possibilities as well.
     
  2. JasonUT

    JasonUT Senior Member

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    BUN Brainstorming: This is not a new topic. I have discussed the relationship between elevated BUN equals increased symptoms in post #13 and #14 and #92. I have yet to figure out a theory or root-cause of this relationship. However, I thought I would dive into it again.

    This article suggests that:
    This article suggests that a high creatinine level is a sign of kidney dysfunction. My creatinine levels have always been good.

    So why would my kidney's have trouble removing Urea from the blood?

    I was on an all meat diet due to SIBO test prep for 12 hours. This might explain my high ER BUN value. But how do I explain all the other 20+ data points I have?

    I don't think I have heart failure, but I was diagnosed with POTS which is associated with low blood pressure and blood pooling. Is it possible my Urea is getting backed up, because the kidneys can't filter the blood fast enough due to poor blood flow? How can I safely improve blood flow through the kidney's?

    Is my increased thirst my body's attempt at trying to increase urination to get rid of the high Urea?

    Or, is my Urea high because I have high Ammonia production?

    What are proven methods to reduce BUN? Will this translate to improved symptoms?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  3. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    @JasonUT Perhaps you should try another BUN test if you have gone off the high meat diet. That may be a simple way to put to rest some of the worry. Being dehydrated can raise BUN. Know that your doctor uses various diagnostic protocols to help decipher all the test results. You may want to look up such:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=understanding medical lab results&ie=&oe=
    http://www.kidney-symptom.com/high-bun-level/362.html
    https://www.livestrong.com/article/526406-how-to-reverse-high-bun-levels/
     
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  4. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    @JasonUT, thanks for posting all of this, it's been helpful for my own troubleshooting.

    I think on the OAT test (at least for Great plains lab) B2 is an indirect marker (so it isn't a measurement of B2 itself), but that is strange if it's low on your test. My Glutaric is still within range but on the higher end of the scale, meaning I'm deficient in B2. My Nutreval also showed B3, B2, B6 deficiency, B1, Biotin was also very close to deficiency.
     
  5. JasonUT

    JasonUT Senior Member

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    @renski Thanks for the feedback. It's been an interesting journey.

    I am continuing to tweak things. I feel like I am on a seesaw now. I fixed B1, B6, and B9, but now need to shift gears to B3 and B5. It appears B5 competes with Biotin and ALA for absorption via sodium-dependent multivitamin transporter (SMVT) [Source]. B3 and B5 are both needed for Acetyl-Coa and CoQ10 production [Source].

    With that said, I started experimenting with larger doses of pantothenic acid and niacinamide. I discontinued the CoQ10 experiment for now. CoQ10 increased energy, but lowered my blood pressure too much making me potsy. I also dropped my extra B-Right. My working theory at this time is to fix B3 and B5 and hope that fixes CoQ10, Biotin, and Hormones.
     
  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    From my own experience this is a potent antagonizer of bile acids (esp. endogenous Taurine synthesis). Since I do not tolerate Taurine supplementation (it lowers aldosterone horribly), I am looking into improving endogenous Taurine. Carcinine does that and in my case it depleted all the raw materials... I haven't found a reputable source for it yet though
     
  7. JasonUT

    JasonUT Senior Member

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    Interesting. These articles seem to suggest B5 helps Bile Acid production via Acetyl-CoA. I wounder what is happening.
    http://healthandscience.eu/index.ph...-pantothenic-acid&catid=54&Itemid=327&lang=en
    http://mccordresearch.com/vitamin-b5-pantothenic-acid
    http://www.syrianclinic.com/med/en/ProfSupplements/VitaminB5PantothenicAcidps.html
    https://nootropicsexpert.com/vitamin-b5-pantothenic-acid/
    https://www.drlam.com/blog/about-vitamin-b5/1235/

    [​IMG]

    Interesting, I'll need to research taurine's affect on aldosterone, hypotension, POTS, vasodilaiton, etc.
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I suspect vit A deficiency in my case. I probably also have impaired Zinc absorption.
     
  9. JasonUT

    JasonUT Senior Member

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    Nutritionist Appointment, 10/6/2017:
    1. Concerned about Metabolic Disorder around processing proteins. Recommended a Metabolic Disorder Panel test.
    2. Felt that I may have some form of Urea Cycle abnormality. This is based on the idea that my urea levels are elevated when symptomatic and I struggle to supplement with Glutamine which is one of the primary amino acids of Ammonia and Urea [Source]. Glutamine avoidance and Essential Amino Acid and BCAA supplementation is one of the primary treatments for urea cycle disorders such as Ornithine Transcarbamylase Deficiency.
    3. I may be struggling with low B3 levels because my body is having trouble processing proteins, specifically tryptophan amino acid. My tryptophan metabolite 5-HIAA has been historically low on my OAT. Tryptophan pathways.
    4. As a result, he recommended I try to lower animal protein intake, avoid glutamine, and try BCAA supplements that are free of added glutamine.
    There appears to be a lot of discussion on Phoenixrising around BCAA's. I'll need to dive into these existing discussions.

    Here are a few studies on Urea Cycle disorders and Amino Acids:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3565665/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15050979
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3488504/
    Interesting. Not sure what to make of this statement.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5260006/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branched-chain_amino_acid
    We have a suspicion that I struggle with low Acetyl-CoA levels. I wounder if BCAA supplements will help.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. JasonUT

    JasonUT Senior Member

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    BCAA's and Ammonia Detox: I cherry picked a few studies to elicit some discussion and brainstorming.

    https://www.clinicalcorrelations.org/?p=3544
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23756281
    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4939-1923-9_9
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23315357
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23945292
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    Asklipia and ljimbo423 like this.
  11. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Just recently when I was reading about zinc I found lots of info about its action in lowering ammonia.
     
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  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Do you take enough Molybdenum?
     
  13. JasonUT

    JasonUT Senior Member

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    How would I know? I am currently supplementing with 25 mcg from multi-vitamin.
     
  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  15. JasonUT

    JasonUT Senior Member

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    Inborn Errors of Metabolism (IEM) in Adults: My nutritionist speculated that I might have a Metabolic Disorder that might explain my peculiar response to protein and BUN plus my other symptoms. As a result, I started researching and here is what I have found so far.

    Inborn Errors of Metabolism: Disorder of Adults?

    We talk about pharmacological doses of vitamin cofactors a lot on this forum, but it is only 1 of 8 potential treatments mentioned in the article.

    Inborn Errors of Metabolism in Adults: A Diagnostic Approach to Neurological and Psychiatric Presentations
     
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  16. renski

    renski Senior Member

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  17. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Dr. Lonesdale recommends taking a B complex along with therapeutic doses of B1, + macrominerals like magnesium and potassium. Some people might also have some extent of deficiency in microminerals, which could be a limiting factor. I know I do, given my sulfite sensitivity.
     
  18. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Ideally.. I can barely tolerate Allithamine and regular Thaimine, Benfotamine is a bit better but still strong side effects. And I'm very low in B2, B3, B6 and a bit low in B1.
     
  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Same here. I only tolerate Thiamine-HCl in a low dose B complex.
     
  20. vortex

    vortex Senior Member

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    If I saw glutathione levels as low as yours I would suspect MTHFR, it would explain everything.
    I looked through all your posts but dont see you mentioned your status anywhere?
     

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