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Fingerprints?

Discussion in 'Skeleton, Skin, Muscles, Hair, Teeth, and Nails' started by Sushi, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    It has been observed that for many long-term ME/CFS patients, our fingerprints fade away. Mine are about three-quarters gone. I have read Dr. Cheney's explanation, but there may be other theories out there too.

    Not that I really mind not leaving fingerprints (I think we could all think of advantages!) but as it is a symptom of dysfunctional something-or-other, I would find it hopeful to see them returning.

    So, my question is, is there anyone who has had theirs fade and then return when they got better...or even if they didn't get better?

    Sushi
     
  2. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Very Strange....

    I have never heard of this. Can you post a link to Dr. Cheney's explaination?
     
  3. kolowesi

    kolowesi Senior Member

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    Frickly Sushi fingerprints

    Hi,

    I'm not sure this is the explanation which Sushi remembers, but on the dvd from his 2006 talk in Dallas, he said around 50% of his patients have this.

    He did some punch biopsies (I think that's what they were called) and found something you see in lupus. I've forgotten what it was called. Oh I'm a big help.

    Something autoimmune I guess. Circulating immune complexes?

    My neuro told me that some people make ANA in response to circulating immune complexes. I was tested once and was twice the normal number. I also run elevated ANA and RF sometimes. Seems to be when my immune system is going after something.

    Right now, I'm trying avemar, which helps switch us from Th2 to Th1, so maybe that will be good.

    It seems like my fingerprints are fading, I'll have to get out the inkpad and check. I have an old ID that has one to compare. If you don't hear back, mine are fine.

    Wonder if anyone else has this?

    Kelly

    ETA My fingerprints have a bunch of little speckles kind of squarish that are small but interrupt two or three lines. Wonder if that's related?
     
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Dr. Cheney on fingerprints

    CFIDS patients often don't have any fingerprints. About 10% literally cannot be fingerprinted at all on any of their digits. Up to 50% of them are somewhat affected, and 50% have normal fingerprints. If you biopsy the tissue [make a microscopic examination of surgically removed tissue], they show various pathologies in the dermis [skin] that I think explain some of this.
    They show lymphocytic perivasculitis [inflammation of blood vessels], which is a type of immune activation phenomenon that could produce problems of nutrient supply to the dermis. They also show punched-out lesions in the fibroblasts [cells that produce connective tissue], suggesting that they may not be making collagen correctly. [This appears to be related to a periarteritis secondary to fibroblasts congregating in the distal circulation] That could definitely affect fingerprints.
    So collagen synthesis could be affected. Fingerprint destruction is quite interesting and quite unusual and is seen even in 20-year-olds with CFIDS. I asked a deputy sheriff how often it was they could not get fingerprints from some-one, and his answer was, "Almost never."


    I am not sure where I copied this from, but I think it is authentic. For me it was also interesting that it could be related to collagen as I know that the Ehlers-Danlos that I and some others have, is a collagen disorder.

    Sushi
     
  5. HopingSince88

    HopingSince88 Senior Member

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    Gerwyn just posted a thread that mentioned faded or lack of fingerprints. I had no idea that this was symptom, and thought I would bump this thread to the top.

    I am an IT manager, and recently tried to switch our office over to using fingerprints for logging into our network. Of course I tested this out on myself first. No matter how careful I was the fingerprint reader would not pick up my fingerprint. So I decided that we would continue with password logins to our network. At the time I thought it was just touchy, new technology. I never took a good look at my fingers.

    As it turns out my fingerprints are so faded that they are almost non-existent.

    Who else has this issue?
     
  6. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    just looked and subjectively the ridges dont seem anywhere near as deep as they used to be - also got a couple of fingers with a significant amount of blank patches in the print - looks like extremely minor surface damage/scars (but not scar tissue) effectively removing 20%+ of the print

    no idea if this is sgnificant or means anything tho - could just be age related
     
  7. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    I remember reading about this in connection with ME about twenty years ago in The CFIDS Chronicle. I think the FBI discovered that a group of folk couldn't be fingerprinted. This raised suspicions as it was thought that they had been deliberately erased with criminal intent, until it was discovered that they had the same disease - ME...or CFIDS as it was known then.

    I hope I've recalled this correctly......................it was a very long time ago.
     
  8. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I've never heard of this.

    I can't really tell - but I think my fingers used to have a more obvious 'roughness' to their indents? Does anyone know what's thought to cause it? Or how we can use it to nefarious ends (I suppose it's all DNA testing now though).
     
  9. PoetInSF

    PoetInSF Senior Member

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    Mine's are gone

    I dismissed it when I first read about it. Now I just checked mine, and they are mostly gone. Go figure...
     
  10. serenity

    serenity Senior Member

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    that's odd, not sure how you can tell? should i be able to see them clearly ? i certainly can't.
    you'd have to ask the cops who printed back in my drinking days - hahaha, but i sure don't see any.

    ok i got a flashlight & my glasses, i have some :)
    compared to my husband's & maybe they aren't as pronounced but they are there.
    (of course my primary diagnosis is fibro)
     
  11. dancer

    dancer Senior Member

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    Okay, now my family will think I'm really goofy...but I grabbed an ink pad and tried fingerprinting on paper. I still have SOME visible swirl lines on my index fingers, but the other fingers just produced a dull smudge. Totally weird! I know I used to have fingerprints.
     
  12. spindrift

    spindrift Plays With Voodoo Dollies

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    Sushi, so there is a connection between CFS and Ehlers-Danlos? Do you know more about this?
    I have kind of been wondering if a genetic collagen disorder could lead to POTS and OI and then to
    CF symptoms. Of course I was also thinking maybe CFS could cause collagen problems.

    If I remember correctly you did test XMRV positive by a test I had not heard of. So maybe
    XMRV is causing all of this? Or has a different cause for your Ehlers-Danlos been found?
    I am not familiar how Ehlers-Danlos is tested for.

    Hope I am making sense as I am not on top of my game at the moment.

    Spindrift
     
  13. HopingSince88

    HopingSince88 Senior Member

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    After reading the Wiki on Ehlers-Danlos and checking out the symptoms...I have self-diagnosed myself with this disorder. The other interesting thing is that one of my kids has all the symptoms of CFS, and I would also say she has this Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. I will bring this up at my next physical to my PCP.

    I remember as a kid I could freak people out by tying myself into a knot or sorts. Hypermobility, flat feet...etc... I have almost every symptom.

    This may also tie into the thread on how CFS folks look younger than they are? Velvety smooth skin is listed as part of the syndrome.
     
  14. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I've been having fun placing finger-prints on my water glass today. I think it's possible that my skin has just gotten less rough from doing less, but my prints are still there.

    This sounded like a friend (although a lot of it just sounded like exaggerated hyper-mobility): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehlers-Danlos_syndrome

    It also mentioned marfan syndrome, and I've been told that, while I don't have all the characteristics to justify a diagnosis, I have 'marfanoid tendencies'. It seems like neither have useful treatments though.

    I've often seen connective tissue disorders mentioned with CFS, but it never seems to get much attention from anyone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  15. creekfeet

    creekfeet Sockfeet

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    Okay, this is just weird.

    I have nearly no fingerprints but as far as I know, I never have had!

    Three times I've been fingerprinted, for working with state parks and for volunteering as a 4H leader. All three times, even with the most sophisticated fingerprinting equipment and experienced operators, they gave up and accepted substandard prints, because I just have smooth fingers. I should say four times, because once they even sent me back, told me to use cornhusker's lotion for a week and try again, and still didn't get prints off me when I came back. Sheriff joked I'd be perfect for a life of crime.

    So of course I'm wondering, could this mean I had ME years before I was aware of it? Could my tendency to tire out, which seemed like hypoglycemia, have always been ME, all along, and it only got worse at the time I thought I first got it?

    But my sister has smooth fingertips, too.

    So maybe she has a mild case of ME?

    Who knows... but this sure is intriguing.
     
  16. kat0465

    kat0465 Senior Member

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    My fingerprints have been gone for years, the tips are as amooth as a babys... well you know.
    my thumb and pionter finger have a little ridge left, but not much.
    Kat
     
  17. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=+2]Taking a Print[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
    1. Rub a small dark area with a pencil point on a sheet of white paper.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]2. Press and rub your right index finger in the pencil-lead dust. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]3. Place the sticky side of a piece of transparent tape on the dusted finger.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]4. Take the tape with the fingerprint and tape it to a clean sheet of white paper. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]5. Label the fingerprint to identify which finger you have printed.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]6. Continue the process until you have all ten fingers printed.[/FONT]
     
  18. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    surely this is potentially dangerous advice for those who dont have 10 fingerprints available?

    people could starve - or at least get seriously bored
     
  19. spindrift

    spindrift Plays With Voodoo Dollies

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    :tear::tear::tear:

    Thanks for the laugh!
     
  20. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    LOL - I actually went out and bought an ink pad after reading about this phenomenon! I do still have partial prints, but only my thumb prints still are completely there and even those do not seem as deeply grooved as they used to be.
     

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