1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Finally feeling like my normal (CFS normal) self again after SMP attempt...

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by sregan, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes:
    160
    Southeast
    (Also posted to my blog)

    It took about 3 months but I'm finally feeling "my normal" again. I have been laying off all SMP sups and taking about 50 mg B3 per day.

    Each day I'm also taking my minerals with a small amount of B1, B2 and 7 mg p5p.

    I believe perhaps my methylation never stopped. I'm not sure how it could unless other systems in the body can make up for it somehow. I think the last ten years my methylation has been way below normal. Taking the SMP sups has given it a boost, perhaps my diet at times on certain days has also increased the turnover of this cycle. The days that I've felt wonderful I believe is an equilibrium point when my neurotransmitter production is given a boost by methylation. After that either a downregulation of the receptor sites happens or the other idea that once methylation gets boosted the liver becomes overloaded with toxins, the gut becomes rebellious, inflammation goes through the roof. Whatever the case.

    I thank Caledona for her post on Sep 10 about slowing down Methylation.

    I assumed I could just pop a little B3 and that would do it. Not in my case anyway. If I had the above info earlier I might have ended this episode in a few days instead of a couple of months.

    I'm grateful that I didn't permanently change something, for the worse, in my body by attempting SMP. I think that is the biggest worry for most of us is that we could actually make things worse when things are already worse.
     
  2. ninauae

    ninauae

    Messages:
    25
    Likes:
    1
    Congratulations on your success and please also advise me as I have 1/2 CBS genes open with SUOX completely green but my home urine test strips show very low sulfites range. Its 25/1000 so in that case Dr Yasko diet make me miserable.
    My sulfur in body is very low including iron, DHEA, estrogen and nitrogen. I have also high CRP aka inflammation in body and if I start hydroxy b12 and P5P as it makes me worse.
    Do you have any clue how to solve this problem.
    Thanks,
     
  3. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes:
    160
    Southeast
    ninauae
    Not sure if I know enough to help you, why don't you start a new thread and post your question there.
     
  4. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

    Messages:
    336
    Likes:
    222
    Hi sregan
    My take is that those with MAO A ++ have to go slow with any protocol that is meant to augment methylation (?)
    While we all experience things differently, the 2 times that I overdid things, niacin improved things in an hour after having taken it. Do you react to mB12 alone in any way? People with normal methylation function (like my wife) don't notice anything . When I started I had some Herxheimer type of reactions. Maybe not as pronounced as some here experience as I was over half way through chelating mercury (as you already know).
    Your analysis where you included the gut was interesting. Since MAO A ++ decreases the breakdown of serotonin and almost 90% of the serotonin nerves are in the gut, it shouldn't be surprising that there would be a gut response to changes in anything that could ultimately increase production of neurotransmitters.
    MAO A ++ and COMT ++....seems that you guys need to start at the "shallow end of the pool" and not dive in like some here do.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  5. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

    Messages:
    821
    Likes:
    381
    Arizona, USA
    ninauae,

    There are so many causes of inflammation, it's hard to tell from your description. If your DHEA is low, has your progesterone and cortisol been tested? My inflammation was worse when my progesterone and cortisol were not detectable. Or you could have rheumatoid arthritis. Or an infection. Or live with an animal you're allergic to (for me it was 4 cats!) And my CRP was high when I needed my gall bladder out. Or you could be histamine intolerant like I am, and then foods with histamines like tomatoes and spinach, or supplements like NAC make it worse.

    Not knowing your SNPs, other things you are taking, or other symptoms makes it pretty hard to help you.
    The symptoms of B6 overdose include headache, like a tight band around the head, and other things. Look it up to see if you have these symptoms. B12 is water soluble and not easily overdosed, but it will start up the folate and methyl cycles in people who are MTTR A66G +/+. I don't see any direct connection with these supplements making your inflammation worse without factoring in other possibilities.
     
  6. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

    Messages:
    821
    Likes:
    381
    Arizona, USA
    sregan and caledonia

    I just want to be sure that the slow-release niacin you're recommending is for only a short period of time. Unlike when you take regular niacin and maybe flush, and the damage to your liver is reversible, when you take the slow-release form for a long time, your liver never gets to recover and the damage is irreversible.

    Or so I am told. I don't have a research document, just healthcare professional advice to support this: My doctor cautioned me about this when he said my two choices for therapy (for Reynauds/vascular insufficiency) were alcohol and niacin, after eliminating all vasoconstrictors. Turned out the niacin flush only went to my wrists - the fingers stayed blue.
     
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  7. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes:
    160
    Southeast
    Critterina you've been told niacin causes irreversible liver damage? I'd like to see some type of supporting documentation on that. Sounds like something the statins industry would like us to believe.
     
  8. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes:
    160
    Southeast
    stridor MB12 alone helps with energy but there is no adverse "reaction"

    My gut was in bad shape, things have settled down now but with methylation spinning at a greater RPM (so to speak) I was a mess. I had twice before taken B3 on a regular basis. Both times I felt very good for a few months at a time then the effect started to wear off.

    I'm either very sensitive to any increase in methylation or perhaps an overmethylator?

    see: http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

    For my case the NA-Tyrosine seems to be the final missing piece to feeling like myself prior to SMP which if anything points to either the Thyroid or NE/Dopamine or both. I was dealing with quite a bit of Brain Fog when I read what triffid113 wrote which reminded me that I had used NA-Tyrosine before for that. When I was having a very hard getting up in the AM I immediately suspected Serotonin. But seems not to be the case. My mind is much better with the addition of the NA-tyrosine

    the MAO A++ if probably the reason I didn't do too well years ago when the docs couldn't figure out my condition and tried me on SSRI's. Had a HORRIBLE experience every time I had anything that wanted to boost serotonin. Might be the same for many MAO A++ exhibiting the expression of that mutation.
     
  9. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

    Messages:
    821
    Likes:
    381
    Arizona, USA
    My primary care doctor told me - and not just niacin, but it has to be the slow-release kind. He was one of the better doctors I've had in my life, but I'm sure he's not infallible. He sent me home with his textbook on arthritis and told me to read Chapter 11, Diffuse Collagenoses, but didn't offer research on the slow-release niacin.
    I'd look it up for you, but I'm working over 12 hours/day right now, and have administrative duties (performance reviews) to perform on top of that. I'm only doing what I have to these days.
     
  10. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Messages:
    395
    Likes:
    160
    Southeast
    I found one: http://www.livestrong.com/article/285846-slow-release-niacin-liver-damage/

    Seems high doses and very long term use...

    "A few patients taking slow-release niacin at lower doses, such as 500 mg per day, have developed hepatitis, a liver disease, according to the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University. However, most cases of severe hepatitis have occurred in patients who have been taking between 3 and 9 grams per day of slow-release niacin to treat their high cholesterol for months or years."

    "Several medical conditions seem to cause increased risk of liver damage with slow-release niacin, according to the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University. If you have a history of liver disease, diabetes, gout, inflammatory bowel disease or migraines, you may risk damaging your liver with slow-release niacin. In addition, those with active peptic ulcer disease and cardiac arrhythmias also face a higher risk of liver damage with slow-release niacin."
     
    Little Bluestem and Critterina like this.
  11. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

    Messages:
    821
    Likes:
    381
    Arizona, USA
    sregan,
    Thanks for finding that!
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page