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Fibromyalgia solved; a pathology not in the mind (research)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia' started by Kina, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    Read the rest of the article here.
    Radio, Waverunner, Emootje and 8 others like this.
  2. Bob

    Bob

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  3. melihtas

    melihtas

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    My hands and feet have always been cold and sweaty. I need to wear socks even in summer. My body has difficulty to regulate the temperature. When i feel cold i drink an hot tea and begin sweating. But i don't know whether all these are the cause or effect of me/cfs.
  4. Bob

    Bob

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    Here's the article by Dr Frank Rice:
    http://www.intidyn.com/Newsroom/Fibromyalgia Pathology for lay people 2013-06-24.pdf
    And a related press release:
    http://www.intidyn.com/Newsroom/article-0009.html


    And here's the research paper that it's based on (but the full article is behind a paywall):

    Excessive peptidergic sensory innervation of cutaneous arteriole-venule shunts (AVS) in the palmar glabrous skin of fibromyalgia patients: implications for widespread deep tissue pain and fatigue.
    Albrecht PJ, Hou Q, Argoff CE, Storey JR, Wymer JP, Rice FL.
    Pain Med. 2013 Jun;14(6):895-915.
    doi: 10.1111/pme.12139. Epub 2013 May 20.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pme.12139/abstract


    Edit:
    This looks like it must be the editorial in Pain Medicine, by Robert Gerwin:
    http://inspiretocure.org/Newsroom/Albrecht et al 2013 editorial.pdf

    .
    WillowJ, aimossy, Sea and 2 others like this.
  5. Shell

    Shell Senior Member

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    Interesting stuff, - would like to have seen a link to the paper though. The "bust thermostat" is very much a part of Fibro but it's also a part of ME and Dysauto stuff. It seems to be saying there's yet more evidence of a HPA dysfunction pointing back to Woods et al's findings suggesting (strongly) that FMS is a form of hyperadrenergic POTS.
    As a fibromite with increasing breakdown of the ANS I can see how it all fits. But the idea that there will be a suitable therapy soon - I'm way too cynical to believe that:whistle:
    PhoenixDown and aimossy like this.
  6. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    This connects to earlier work on both capillaries and small nerve fibers. Its not necessarily a "cause", but it does look like the physiological driver of symptoms. Once we find out why this is happening (if its replicated and stands up to scrutiny) then we may have the cause. In the meantime the pathophysiology can be used to identify patients, and to indicate targets for treatment.

    About half of all CFS patients qualify for fibro. If a diagnostic test is commercialized, then this could change both the politics and the science.

    Even if this is shown to be 100% of the drivers of the symptoms, it may not directly lead to a cure as to do that we probably need to understanding the underlying causal mechanisms. If it can be replicated then we may be a big step closer to that cure though.
    ahimsa, AbbyDear, merylg and 6 others like this.
  7. vamah

    vamah Senior Member

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    I didn't get a lot of the science, but the general idea is fascinating. My body temp is always abnormally low and my hands and feel get numb and painful in the winter. Interestingly, wearing heavy socks and shoes makes this problem worse because I do not then have full range of motion to flex my toes which is the only thing that seems to warm them up.

    Even if scientists don't have answers on how to solve this problem yet, it is always nice to see research that contradicts the notion that the disease is psychological.
    AbbyDear, aimossy and August59 like this.
  8. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Excellent news.
  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Essentially they are saying there is something wrong with the balance of nerves that regulate small blood vessels. As a result patients do not respond appropriately to temperature, and changes in temperature. These problems can lead to pain, fatigue and heat, but also might provide a basis for orthostatic intolerance. Further as blood supply can be compromised, there might be problems exercising.
    ahimsa and aimossy like this.
  10. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I wonder why the thyroid doesn't figure more prominently in this research considering its importance on body temperature.

    I wish all people with fibromyalgia would be assessed properly for hypothyroidism and not just tested for TSH. I bet a great many cases would disappear.
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I'm trying to figure out the importance of the a2C (ADRA2C) receptors. They're closely related to the a2A (ADRA2A) receptors mentioned in some very recent ME/CFS research, and are very up-regulated after exertion.

    a2C and a2A basically seem to do the same thing, just at different levels of stimulation. a2C (fibromyalgia) reacts to lower levels of nervous system activity, whereas a2A reacts to more intense activity.
    ukxmrv likes this.
  12. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Anecdotal response: Some years ago I was treated by an autonomic specialist for dysautonomia (OI, etc.). He used combinations of low dose drug therapy. At that time, and for years before, I had had all the symptoms of fibro. After taking Strattera (10 mg twice a day if I remember) and Cymbalta (20 mg I think), most of my temperature regulation problems cleared up.

    Also, my hands and feet were no longer cold and my fibro pain disappeared. The interesting thing is that these symptoms didn't come back after I stopped these medications. I never understood why but maybe there is a clue in this article:




    Sushi
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  13. Bob

    Bob

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    Esther12 likes this.
  14. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    This would probably explain the roving heat monster I have under my skin. Also, why I get blood pooling in my feet that makes them turn black. If I wear shoes I will soak a pair of socks in about 2 hours from my feet sweating because the blood will not circulate through the capillaries fast enough. This is according to a vascular doctor, but he had no treatment options to offer me.

    This probably the case with ME/CFS, except it is restricted blood flow through our organs and muscles. That would aslo explain very poor detox as well
  15. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    This was great news :)

    Why arent I surprised that its the drug companies funding some good research into an illness like Fibro rather then the government. I wish the drug companies would get some serious interest in ME (I guess till its offically separated from CFS, things with all the different definitions make study into our illness too difficult).
  16. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    A small step forward for the Fibro and related communities
    But a giant leap forward for the (mostly) antagonistic medical complex.
    Good news.
    Little Bluestem and aimossy like this.
  17. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    August...
    My sisters ex had a issue with badly sweating feet (soaking socks like you do ..plantar hyperhidrosis its called.. he was fine elsewhere, it was just his feet) and the issue was something to do with his sweat glands in his feet being overactive. They can apparently treat that (my niece has inherited the same issue with her feet, her feet were running sweat even as a baby).

    I suggest to look up the treatments (from what I remember it was by surgery or something like that, some kind of procedure to treat it. He'd already tried meds. It can be treated but many doctor ignore treating it due to lack of realizing how badly this affects some).
  18. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    Hi all,
    Ema, I agree.

    Dr.John Lowe was convinced that the hormone T3 is the treatment for fibromyalgia from personal experience and from lots of patients he had been treating. The last interview with him and other good information
    http://recoveringwitht3.com/blog/dr-john-c-lowes-final-interview
    Unfortunately no scientific study is done so far.

    I also recommend www.stopthethyroidmadness.com for more information about optimal treatment of hypothyroidism for you that are interested and haven´t been there before.
  19. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I was just reading some bits on bobs on FMS in Pain from 2010.

    Psychological approaches are effective for fibromyalgia: remaining issues and challenges.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20800359

    And a reply:
    Psychological approaches have not been demonstrated to be effective for fibromyalgia.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21316149

    Interesting to see how things have moved on.
    barbc56 and Little Bluestem like this.
  20. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    The reason I'm getting such severe sweating on my feet when I'm wearing shoes goes back to my feet turn black and blue while sitting or standing and evidently even while walking. They couldn't figure out why my capillaries were not letting the oxygen depleted blood to flow normally. It's almost as if I have severe vasoconstriction, but the Mayo Clinic and my vascular doctor here at home ran every test possible and it was all normal. The only thing that actually was abnormal was skin perfusion when the doctor presses his thumb on it for 10 sec., it takes maybe a minute before the dimple to come out and the color to come back in the spot.

    I do have plantar fasciitis in both feet and a marble sized plantar fibroma on my left foot. Podiatrist and from what I've read is not to try to remove them unless they get huge because they more than likely will return.

    Thank you for the information and it is still something to consider.

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