Fibromyalgia CFS vs Viral CFS?

[panckage]

On this forum there are countless threads about viral symptoms of CFS. It really bewilders me. I can't identify with it at all. CFS does not feel like a cold/flu to me at all. The only potentially 'viral' symptom I have is a sore throat, nothing more. I did not cold/flu/sickness preceding both times I have gotten CFS. The only thing in common is that both times I was at an exercise peak (Its probably not related, but it made it easy to pinpoint both times I got CFS)

OTOH both times I have had CFS I have had fibromyalgia to go along with it. My fibromyalgia symptoms tend to come and go (Eg. bad for a few months, and then disappear for a few months) -BUT- I have only had fibromyalgia during times I have had CFS. Before getting CFS I never had any signs of fibro and in my 10 year relapse from CFS I didn't have fibro symptoms either. IME fibro and CFS appear to have the same underlying cause.

So I'm just curious about more information about this. Is what I have clearly different than those who have 'viral' CFS? Are there distinct differences between the types?


I fit the CCC criteria for CFS so this is not a case of misdiagnosis.

 

[Bob]

I think we all have a slightly different experience and set of symptoms, panckage.
During my first ten years I didn't have any pain whatsoever. But then I developed a new set of symptoms, which included intense generalised pain and all sorts of other issues (e.g. IBS, joint pain & inflammation). Brain fog used to be my biggest complaint, but now it's pain and inflammation.

 

[*GG*]

On this forum there are countless threads about viral symptoms of CFS. It really bewilders me. I can't identify with it at all. CFS does not feel like a cold/flu to me at all. The only potentially 'viral' symptom I have is a sore throat, nothing more. I did not get? cold/flu/sickness preceding both times I have gotten CFS. The only thing in common is that both times I was at an exercise peak (Its probably not related, but it made it easy to pinpoint both times I got CFS)

OTOH both times I have had CFS I have had fibromyalgia to go along with it. My fibromyalgia symptoms tend to come and go (Eg. bad for a few months, and then disappear for a few months) -BUT- I have only had fibromyalgia during times I have had CFS. Before getting CFS I never had any signs of fibro and in my 10 year relapse from CFS I didn't have fibro symptoms either. IME fibro and CFS appear to have the same underlying cause.

So I'm just curious about more information about this. Is what I have clearly different than those who have 'viral' CFS? Are there distinct differences between the types?

I fit the CCC criteria for CFS so this is not a case of misdiagnosis.

@panckage
Both times you have gotten CFS? I only caught it once. Seems like you are saying you had it then recovered completely, then got it again?

GG

 

[minkeygirl]

I thought FM was a separate disease?

and I thought there were many subsets to this disease which is why it makes it so hard to figure it out.

 

[helen1]

@panckage
Not everyone with chronic viral reactivation has the typical signs of virus activation. So you might have active viruses (or other infections) after all. That's the case for me, didn't think I had any infections as no sore throat, swollen lymph nodes, fever or pain, but tested positive for active infection of CMV (and mycoplasma pneu and c. pneu). It seems you can't know unless you get tested.

Not saying everyone has them though.

 

[Vic]

The only thing in common is that both times I was at an exercise peak (Its probably not related, but it made it easy to pinpoint both times I got CFS)

It is very related.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/can-overtraining-syndrome-cause-me-cfs.9075/
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/onset-associated-with-exercise.39910/

 

[drob31]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't low level viral infections present with more non-specific symptoms like fatigue versus the specific symptoms the virus would have at higher titers?

 

[barbc56]

My neurologist explained it this way. If your symptoms started with a physical trauma it's FM. If viral CFS. But there are always exceptions and probably so many not really clarify a diagnosis.

I would not be surprised if FM turns out to be separate or that people can have both.

Complicated to say the least!

Barb

 

[panckage]

@panckage
Both times you have gotten CFS? I only caught it once. Seems like you are saying you had it then recovered completely, then got it again?

I never quite had the energy level as before I got CFS the first time, but then again after the years I lost (between 19 and 22) I think there would have naturally been some decline. As far as my life was concerned though, I was back to being an ordinary human being for 10 years!

 

[*GG*]

I never quite had the energy level as before I got CFS the first time, but then again after the years I lost (between 19 and 22) I think there would have naturally been some decline.

As far as my life was concerned though, I was back to being an ordinary human being for 10 years!

Ok, not sure how typical a remission is. Anybody know, What is the data on that situation?

Are you talking about decline for a Healthy person vs a CFSer?

GG

 

[panckage]

Are you talking about decline for a Healthy person vs a CFSer?

I mean a normal decline in a healthy person

 

[Deltrus]

I think they are both related. TNF-A, an inflammatory cytokine that may be released due to a virus / infection upregulates NMDA/AMPA and downregulates GABA receptors, which can then cause muscle tension, poor sleep etc (because it makes the brain have more excitatory signalling, which surprisingly doesn't make you feel more wakeful). And that is just 1 pathway in which they are related. There are probably hundreds of ways that the immune system, viruses, infections etc all interact. A parasite or gut biome irregularity might leave you vulnerable to a virus but not give you a symptom of a virus etc.

Personally I have three basically confirmed things: Blastocystis intestinal parasite, hives from exercise/heat, high amounts of excitatory activity in the brain (I respond extremely well to phenibut/benzos, and also get poor sleep). Symptoms of CFS / Fibro.

I rarely get viral symptoms but I believe my hives are herpesvirus that sometimes get pushed past the threshold to get show visible symptoms.

One time I was on a combination of antibiotics and I got a true feeling of how people feel when they have really bad CFS. It was terrible, I'd have heavy viral symptoms instead of just hives when I was too hot / exercised too much. It was bactrim/flagyl for the antibiotics. And the post exertion fatigue was so bad that I didn't just feel lazy/tired/fatigued, once I crossed the threshold I just instantly had to sit down or something. Fall over otherwise.