Feeling stuck, sick and need some help please

[Matt_C]

Just following doctor's orders...she sold me this particular cal/mag supplement and wrote that I should take two pills at bed time. Why would she recommend such high doses? She's supposed to be knowledgeable about this stuff. I'll just take half a pill at night then and drop the p5p for now.

Cheers

 

[Matt_C]

Looks like I read the label wrong...it says "each pill contains magnesium rotate equiv. magnesium 30mg (but then says 455mg), and magnesium apartate equiv. 21mg (296mg)." Confusing...

 

[ahmo]

I'm using Natures Life, Magnesium 200 mg (from 1,300 mg Magnesium Malate) I'm using 3xtablets, twice daily.

 

[Matt_C]

Hi again...i'm struggling once again and can't figure it out this time. Yesterday I had similar symptoms to the day before, being that I felt really good for a period which was followed by some dizziness and light-headedness. In the morning it was relieved by about 350mg of potassium supplements. At around 12pm I had to cal/mag pills (about 100mg mag), a banana and a handful of potato chips, and shortly after this the dizziness and light-headedness returned and I could barely relieve it. I took about another 700-900mg of potassium in water and it seemed to give very mild relief, but the symptoms remained for the rest of the evening. My supplements for the day were 1mg B12, 1250 db12, c x 3grams (also has zinc in it 8mg per tablet), e, and another 100mg of mag/cal supplements at night. As an example of the way I feel, it's kind of like I have the visual symptoms of nausea but not the sick feeling with it. I was on a train yesterday and it pulled up at my stop, but I nearly fell over because it felt like it was still moving once stopped. Strange. It's still going this morning. I don't know whether I need more potassium or if I had too much, or if it was the magnesium or something in the chips, or if i'm lacking something else. @ahmo, @whodathunkit, @PeterPositive, or anyone else, any advice or suggestions? Thank you in advance...

 

[Matt_C]

I should also note that I have 2-3 strong cups of coffee in the morning, and i've been smoking 1-2 cigarettes in the morning. But the symptoms usually come later in the day so i'm not sure if there's a connection. I'll stop these for a few days and see, but if anyone has any experience with coffee or tobacco causing problems please let me know.

Cheers

Update 10:42...the symptoms I described above seem to have abated now and replaced with moderate fatigue. Just feeling really wiped out now, but it's a relief not to feel like I was.

 

[ahmo]

@Matt_C bummer. My first thought was K+. You might need significantly more thatn you're taking. MY next thought was about what now gives me similar symptoms, now when I no longer take or need K+. I now have a particular sort of light-headedness, w/ someother discomfort, maybe neurological, when I need antioxidants. My understanding is that it's high peroxynitrite, and I've used this set of symptoms during the past year to give my body what it needs, avoiding any crashes.

It's a whole other area of understanding, you might not need to go there. I just got this link today, a pretty comprehensive listing of Martin Pall's findings about peroxynitrite/nitric oxide. Antioxidants are wide-ranging, including coffee, tea, Vit C. Folate and B12 are also in the list. In my search for what suited me best, I used astaxanthin, resveratrol, bilberry, french melon. My body favors ground acai by the scoop, not capsules. I also use a seed/nut mix, and carrots. There are a lot of choices.

 

[PeterPositive]

I should also note that I have 2-3 strong cups of coffee in the morning, and i've been smoking 1-2 cigarettes in the morning. But the symptoms usually come later in the day so i'm not sure if there's a connection. I'll stop these for a few days and see, but if anyone has any experience with coffee or tobacco causing problems please let me know.

Cheers

Update 10:42...the symptoms I described above seem to have abated now and replaced with moderate fatigue. Just feeling really wiped out now, but it's a relief not to feel like I was.

Coffee can be a bad beast for sensitive people. I love coffee but I had to quit it due to several issues with it. In particular I had multiple episodes of heart palpitations and feeling faint that disappeared when I cut all the caffeine.

That was a real bummer, but the cost was too high. This was almost 20 years ago... I later noticed that I generally don't do well with any sort of stimulant.

cheers

 

[Matt_C]

Confirmed for myself again today that I need high doses of potassium. I had only taken about 700mg until about 2pm today when the muscles in my right forearm and hand started cramping up. Resolved 20 minutes after taking another 600mg or so. I guess I've long been deficient, or that I've generated wuite a lot of healing by starting methylation. I think i need around 1500mg a day to avoid symptoms, and 3000mg a day to feel good. Maybe more.

 

[Matt_C]

Something i've noticed a couple of times now over the last couple of days with higher doses of potassium is tingling on the backs of my hands and arms. Like a prickly/tingly sensation. And I sweat after drinking it too. @ahmo have you ever experienced this? Sorry to ask you so many questions, I hope you don't mind. It's just you had a need for a lot of potassium too.

 

[Ellkaye]

This sounds really complex.
I d get a few different doctors' opinions including an endocrinologist

 

[Matt_C]

This sounds really complex.
I d get a few different doctors' opinions including an endocrinologist

Thanks for your reply Ellkaye, but i'm not confident that any doctor here in Australia would have any real idea about what's going on in my body. I've been on that merry-go-round for decades and never got any answers. Although i've never seen an endocrinologist, I have no idea where to go or what questions to ask or how to tell them what I need, because I don't really know. And in my experience, if I don't know what I need then i'm not going to get any help. And my guess is, when they realise I don't have diabetes or a hormone problem, they'll shrug their shoulders and refer me to a psychiatrist. Also, i've had an enormous array of blood tests run over the years by various GP's. Would there not be some kind of blood marker that would indicate I need to see an endocrinologist?

I've been reading some other posts around here related to tingling and potassium. It could be a similar issue. I've had this in the past, years ago when I was doing a different nutritional protocol but I was never able to figure out what it was.

One thing that seems clear is it is related to my potassium levels/intake. I haven't noticed this until recently when I started increasing my doses after realising i'm dealing with some symptoms of low potassium. In fact i've just been reading now that tingling sensations is related to hyperkalemia. Is it even possible to have symptoms of hyopkalemia followed so quickly by hyperkalemia with what seems like a fairly modest dose of 1000mg? My total intake today was 2400mg. I've had consistently high urea for a very long time now which can suggest poor kidney function but no doctor has ever suggested this might be a problem for me.

 

[ahmo]

Something i've noticed a couple of times now over the last couple of days with higher doses of potassium is tingling on the backs of my hands and arms. Like a prickly/tingly sensation. And I sweat after drinking it too. @ahmo have you ever experienced this? Sorry to ask you so many questions, I hope you don't mind. It's just you had a need for a lot of potassium too.

Not sure about the tingling. Are you taking magnesium? Low mg for me was generally cramping, not tingling. Tingling sounds neurological... Sorry, I'm really only about my own symptom cluster.

In fact i've just been reading now that tingling sensations is related to hyperkalemia. Is it even possible to have symptoms of hyopkalemia followed so quickly by hyperkalemia with what seems like a fairly modest dose of 1000mg? My total intake today was 2400mg. I've had consistently high urea for a very long time now which can suggest poor kidney function but no doctor has ever suggested this might be a problem for me.

What are these hypo/hyper symptoms? Again, I don't know.

 

[Matt_C]

Not sure about the tingling. Are you taking magnesium? Low mg for me was generally cramping, not tingling. Tingling sounds neurological... Sorry, I'm really only about my own symptom cluster.


What are these hypo/hyper symptoms? Again, I don't know.

The hypo symptoms were cramping in my forearm/hand that was relieved by potassium, then after 700mg potassium I experienced what appear to be hyper symptoms of tingling on the backs of my hands and along my arms.

Yeah I take magnesium, but i'll increase my dose and take it twice a day.

 

[ahmo]

I haven't spent time on this site, but it's been referred to me. Might find some info here.
http://divinehealthfromtheinsideout.com/2012/05/the-role-of-minerals-in-the-body/

 

[Matt_C]

Thanks everybody for your feedback to date. I really appreciate it. As i'm sure many of you know, this is hard work and my GP can't offer much advice and certainly isn't available when I need him to be.

So I managed to find my way out of that little episode by backing off of mb12 and dropping folate. The profuse sweating after potassium and the tingling in my hands/forearms has also eased up, though not completely. I had a few pretty good days this last week at work and then I decided to add methylfolate back in and titrate up. I started with 200mcg one day, then increased to 400mcg the next day and took the same dose on the third day. I started getting those itchy acne type lumps over my scalp and some on my face and neck as well by the second day. Then my sleep became very poor, waking very early and unable to get back to sleep. My bowel movements changed too, with noticeably more undigested food in my stool and they also turned a pale/clay colour and very soft. I dropped the methylfolate yesterday, and today I have that same dizzyness/nausea that was trouble me in my posts above.

I'm still unsure if these are signs of healing that i'm going to need to work through, or folate deficiency by not taking enough. The nausea, poor sleep, and acne are confusing me and i'm not quite sure what to make of it. It seems most likely that it's due to folate insufficiency. Last time when I ramped up methylfolate the acne did subside, but then other symptoms became intolerable.

I started turmeric yesterday as per ahmo's suggestion to add some antioxidants, i've also seen this recommended elsewhere, and will stay on that for a week before trying any more methylfolate. I need to be more diligent with dosing vitamin c too as i've only been taking 1-3 grams a day, whereas Fredd recommends 5 grams.

 

[Matt_C]

Another really interesting symptom that came up this week, on the days I was at work and feeling better, is an extremely sore temporal muscle. I've had a chronic tension headache for about the last 12 years and these muscles are key to it, although massage has only ever given temporary and mild relief. For no apparent reason the muscle became EXTREMELY painful for 3-4 days. I started LCF this week too, perhaps there's a connection?

 

[Matt_C]

I found this post relating to acne and the response is by Freddd:

Inester7: Hey how did you resolve the acne just by increasing ab12???? and how much are you taking of all the supplements. Pls help!! I am doing great but I am struggling with very painful cyst acne big red and painful, that I ALWAYS get from b12. I wish I know what it means but is why I always give up the protocol.

Freddd: What kind of b12 are you taking? How much? How much methylfolate. Any other forms of folate? These things appear in my experience with spoiled injectable MeCbl or HyCbl and/or paradoxical folate deficiency (simple methylation block on a given level or folic acid) as well as methyl trap.

The itchy acne type lumps/bumps are also in Group 3 of Freddd's symptoms:

Group 3 - Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency, partial methylation block to methyltrap on 1 or more internal triage levels. Frequently called “NAC DETOX” or “GLUTATHIONE DETOX”.

I'm fairly clear on what Paradoxical Folate Deficiency is now, but is insufficiency a situation where more methylfolate is needed? I get both IBS type symptoms, sleep interference, and the itchy facial/scalp acne whenever I add methylfolate, but in my first experiment with ramping it up the itchy acne bumps went away. My sleep and IBS remained, though, and got worse.

If it's not a situation where I need more methylfolate, it appears that I have a partial methylation block. Sorry to tag you again, but @ahmo, any idea what i'm doing wrong? All I did was add in methylfolate to bring these symptoms on, I don't take any other source of folate (no processed foods etc), I avoid leafy greens, and have mb12 in place already along with it c, d, e, omega 3, and now high potency curcumin capsules.

 

[ahmo]

@Matt_C For me, acne was always a need for more folate. I wish I could help you problem-solve, but my brain just isn't up to it. @whodathunkit might have some ideas.

 

[Matt_C]

Thanks ahmo. I forgot to tag @whodathunk it, but very keen to hear any ideas you may have.

 

[whodathunkit]

but is insufficiency a situation where more methylfolate is needed? I get both IBS type symptoms, sleep interference, and the itchy facial/scalp acne whenever I add methylfolate, but in my first experiment with ramping it up the itchy acne bumps went away. My sleep and IBS remained, though, and got worse.

IMO you answered your own question here.

You got improvement with a minor "superficial" (that is,exterior skin) symptom when you ramped up. In my experience that is a clue that ramping up will help the deeper things like IBS and hormonal/neurological symptoms, too. But because these symptoms are on a "deeper level" (as Freddd might say) they take more folate and co-factors, as well as a lot more time.

Technically there seems to be no upper limit of folate to take...for example, the prescription folate medication "Deplin" comes in 15mg tabs and is frequently prescribed in large dose (30mg or more) to combat depression. So folate is demonstrably quite safe in and of itself. From what I've experienced and read around here, the upper limit of folate intake seems to be set by the individual, and is predicated on whether they're able to manage the sides precipitated by co-factor deficiencies (e.g., like but not limited to low potassium, etc.) and also what sides they're able to live with until they stabilize at a healing dose. My healing dose was 40mg/day of Solgar Metafolin for months before I was able to take it down. And frequently things would get worse for a while before I found the dose that made them better. It was a lot of steps. Sometimes it was three steps forwards and two steps back. But a net gain of a single step is still progress.

I got a lot of bowel and gastro symptoms when I first started the Deadlock Quartet, too. Bowels and gastro seem to be a very deep problem and after the first year on the Deadlock I branched out and started targeting my gut specifically with pre- and probiotics. This was also very helpful to energy, bowels, and sleep, but healing my gut is still an ongoing process. I'm much better but not in the clear yet.

I urge you to read A LOT around the forum, especially in the detox forum. Search member @ahmo and anyone else you think might help you. A lot of what we're discussing here has been discussed in other posts, and with regards to my posts, probably better than I have time for right now.

Hope that helps a little. Good luck!