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Feeling crook on paleo diet

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by justy, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi, this is the second time I have tried Dr M's stone age diet. Mine is a bit different because I don't eat meat - but I do eat fish.

    Last time and now again I found that cutting out sugars, most carbs and eating much more protein (mainly eggs and fish) and fat (mainly coconut oil and nuts) leaves me feeling sicky and totally off my food. I look at an omelette and salad and the thought of eating it makes me feel physically sick.

    This morning I had to make some porridge for the children and they had it with a spoonful of honey and soya milk - it looked absolutely amazing and I had to stop myself from scoffing it, it felt just like what I needed. I didn't eat it though - I haven't eaten oats for a few years as they make me bloated.

    I made myself some almond meal and apple prrodge, which was nice, but still made me feel a bit sick. When I was eating carbs I had a big appetitie and loved cooking and thinking about food. Now I never feel hungry (not really complaining about that as I need to lose weight) and cant even bear to think about food.

    Someone suggested I may not be able to digest the extra protein etc that well and I have been taking digestive enzymes alongside the diet, so far not helping.

    Anyone e;se ever had this?
    aimossy likes this.
  2. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Lol the same exact thing is happening to me right now. This semi-paleo diet has killed my appetite, and yeah probably because this food is not very appealing and does often leave me feeling fed but not satisfied. I will stick to it though, the theory convinced me long ago. Maybe we are getting some yeast "die-off" too.
    justy likes this.
  3. mermaid

    mermaid Senior Member

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    Sorry to hear this Justy. I haven't quite had your problem.

    Since I have been paleo I have always had a smoothie for breakfast as I find liquid is easier to digest especially if I am having a bad stomach day. I do put weird things in my smoothies (a kind of mix of veg, nuts, seeds, coconut milk and oil, kefir and cacao, and a very little fruit on a good day....) but luckily rather enjoy them in spite of this odd collection. Of course that particular mix might well make you feel sicker! Somehow the cacao convinces my brain that I am having chocolate.

    On a bad day (not so many now) I then have a home made soup for lunch, made usually with chicken bones (sorry not an option for you) and more veg. So more liquid....

    Then I will usually manage to eat something solid in the evening.
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  4. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    I have found that when going paleo initially I feel better and then it tapers off or even maybe begin to go backwards.

    I would then find sometimes if I cheated and ate some carbs or sugar I would get a definite boost.

    Was I getting die off and then appeasing the candida or bad gut bacteria that made me feel a bit better? I don't know.

    Or is our blood sugar level getting to low?

    Either way my desire for carbs and sugar is fading I think.
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  5. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    I have carb fantasies - doughnuts!

    I feel better with half a baked potato on top of protein and veg. You need to find a balance of carb. I don't care what anyone says but potatoes are paleo. Butternut or sweet potato is viewed as better but I think normal potato is fine.

    It's really hard on the body to just have protein and veg. Some people do ok but I don't think people with ME should push their bodies too much with anything.

    I think you may also be having a boredom issue with just eggs and fish.

    I don't eat red meat but do chicken, fish and piggy. I get bored!

    Experiment with the carb until you feel ok with things. Maybe you need to go at it more slowly too. Make changes gradually.
  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I think that people should just do what makes them feel best, and that there's no good evidence to justify committing to a paleo diet unless it means one feels better from it.

    I keep my diet pretty low sugar, and it's probably a good idea health wise... but I don't think it's worth being really strict about anything like that. Also - I do find that sugar makes me hungrier as well.
  7. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    I speculate that many of us with M.E. need more carbs (and maybe sugar, the healthier source being fruit). I know I do and there were 2 or 3 threads in the past few weeks where I posted and others agreed.

    In my opinion, nobody should suddenly switch to 100% paleo from a typical average diet. In fact in paleo they suggest cheating 10-30% (meaning 30% non-paleo food, or even more for beginners).

    I wonder if it is a common mistake to eliminate the bad foods but not add the good ones. I have difficulty with that part particularly because of budget. Good that you added healthy fats. How about pastured eggs, bone broth, sea vegetables, fermented foods, etc?

    Or problems can arise if because of eliminating other foods, a person begins to eat much more nightshades, oxalates, corn, soy, peanuts, dairy, other legumes, other grains, etc.

    Maybe you are having problems with uncooked vegetables? There are some vegetables that are harder to digest than others, and I get a sort of unsettled feeling from eating them raw, or only partly-cooked.

    And then after eating something unsettling, it is hard to eat the next snack or meal.

    Of course have your vegetables with some kind of dressing (especially if raw, we need acid and oil to digest them properly).
    justy likes this.
  8. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    Why have you gone low carb as part of your paleo? Low carb is known to kill appetite; I think that's a useful gauge for needing to up your carbs. I love chestnuts now that the season is upon us. And of course there are all of the winter squashes.

    I eat a fair amount of fruit, mostly berries but I mix in papaya to get that color-family in my mix.
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  9. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Potato is paleo Plum, don´t let anyone convince you of the contrary :rofl: Hmmm potatoes... And these carbs are what maintain my weight! I am skinny-muscular now. A year ago I was just skinny in a excessively low carb diet.
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  10. mermaid

    mermaid Senior Member

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    I must admit that I do have potato twice a week which is a lot less than I used to.

    Now I fill up with squashes (either roasted or in soups), and courgette which is great filler I have found and v nice with cumin seeds cooked with coconut oil. Also I am doing the mashed cauliflower with butter that has been suggested by Dr Wahls.
    justy likes this.
  11. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I am doing a diet recommended by Dr Myhill to sort out an upper fermenting gut. She says absolutely NO carbs including no root vegetables (carrots etc) she even says no fruit and for some people no vegetable fibre!!!??? I didn't think my Genova stool test looked too bad - but she belives it points to a fermenting gut, also out are beans and lentils, which we veggies usually eat a lot of.

    Yesterday had apple and almond and coconut oil 'porridge' then at lunch had vegetable soup with naughty root veg and squash and for dinner I had green curry -prawns and veggies in coconut and lime sauce - I also had some white basmati rice. I seemt o do better with a small amount of rice than a small amount of potatoes. I have woken up this morning feeling even more sick than yesterday - although the first few days I felt extra energy.

    http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Stone_Age_Diet_-_this_is_a_diet_which_we_all_should_follow

    The diet also excludes all dairy but allows soya kefir (which I make at home) maybe the feeling ill will pass?

    All the best,
    Justy.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
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  12. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    I'm curious - what on your Genova results points to fermenting gut?

    Also shouldn't you be eating things that pass out of your stomach quickly? So easily digestible things.

    I completely see why yr feeling crook on this. Have you done a metabolic typing test? If you do well on some carb then I don't see the point in making yourself feel worse.

    Over the 4 years I have had severe ME I have listened to and taken the advice of many 'experts'. But the best advice for me was to listen to my body and do what makes it feel right. Oh the money that could've been saved!

    To me when you eat you need to ask yourself:
    Immediately after how do you feel? Any bloating? Fatigue? etc.
    How long until you feel hungry again?

    I would then tweek what yr eating based on that.

    Yr prawn curry sounds nice and yes white rice sounds good too!

    I think for many people white rice is very easily digestible. Just a few that it isn't. Also meant to be good for people with food allergies - except me :)!!
  13. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Food that is easily digestible is so important. For example, when I eat white rice it does not show up in my bowel movements whereas brown rice uses to. SO, at the end what is more healthy?
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  14. aimossy

    aimossy Senior Member

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    sorry your feelin crook with this justy! :ill:
    all I can contribute is that I know medically our bodies need carbohydrates and having too little of them isn't healthy and too much is not quite so good either. mmmmmm carbs! but if I go overboard man am I foggy.
    I had a thought that just came to mind about polls and the special diets and protocols people try.
    I don't know how to go about it or if its even much of a idea but how about having polls on these things and then people can comment on the thread....maybe even a forum for polls that could stay pinned.
    I dunno but its quite a lot of work sifting through threads. Ive been thinking about paleo and scd. I don't even get methylation mind you I havnt searched too hard on that yet cos it freaks me out crazy stuff happened to me on a multi vitamin a wee while ago.eeeeek! but that isn't saying im anti methylation I just havnt gone there yet.
    far out all these things we try.
    It maybe a useful ordered way of collating info and experiences with the proviso that most people know we are all diff and respond differently of course.
    what do people think of that idea?:)o_O
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  15. aimossy

    aimossy Senior Member

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    I bloat on oats too and don't go well at all on digestive enzymes, but of course that doesnt mean its digestive enzymes and not the paleo that causing you bother as you know of course. Im just sharing.
    I notice I have trouble digesting if too big a meal of high protein foods.
    I have been bad with anything ive tried for myself except being gluten free which does help me.:)
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
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  16. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    @ Plum well i'm curious too as I didn't think my Genova results were that interesting. here they are:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/genova-cdsa-results.21266/#post-324229

    Slightly worried to see that I am also being told to take DHEA despite having very high beat glucoronidase which is know to make estrogen go high in the body (and I am a typical case of that)

    I am also supposed to start metronizadole for the fermenting gut, but as its so brutal cant face it before I get back from Spain in mid Jan. Thought I would start just with the diet and same as last time, even the thought of vegetables is making me feel sick!

    Last time I felt this bad the only things that felt ok to eat where salmon, broccoli and boiled potatoes!
    aimossy likes this.
  17. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    When I am having a lot of IBS symptoms, I crave fruit. I have always done this even before getting sick/IBS. Counterintuitive because of acid, maybe, but as long as it helps and within the restrictions of a "healthy diet" my doctor says go for it. It might have to do with getting more fiber. While the "what works for me" argument isn't necessarily a valid argument (nor necessarily an invalid argument), as cocaine can make you feel good, the fruit making my stomach feel better may not generalize enough to make it a cure for everyone.

    I was just reading an article on the Kitava diet and it pointed out some other factors at play which probably should be considered when recommending any diet.

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/what-can-we-learn-from-the-kitavans/

    This article also mentions that many of the health claims from following our ancestor's diets may be invalid as many of the conditions are usually related to age.

    I'm not saying don't follow this diet as it is a matter of choice, but IMHO, following the advice of dieticians about getting plenty of fruits and veggies, not as much meat, drink plenty of water, etc. etc. seems sensible.
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  18. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Justy, hope you get to feeling better soon!!!!:)

    I thought this deserves it's own post.:)
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  19. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Yeah - that's the main one.

    Best of luck with it all Justy.
  20. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    for some on low carb diets, low potassium can be an issue and cause people to feel yuk especially that first week as the diet has that initial duiretic effect which causes the potassium loss. Potassium supps, green veges or there is a diet salt which contains alot more potassium then sodium compared to regular salt. these things can help alot.

    Also sugar cravings or even until your brain adjusts to using ketones instead of glucose for energy one can feel lethargic from the diet. glutamine seems to help with this. for the sugar cravings a tsp of glutamine powder in a small glass of water seems to stop crab cravings on low carb diets quite quickly as in a few minutes, doesnt seem to work if one is on a diet with carbs though.
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