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ME/CFS and Beating the Clock
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Feeling better at night

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by knackers323, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    I tend to start to feel better around 5 o clock. To those that experience the same thing, do you have any idea why?

    Do you know if it has something to do with the actual time of the day or is it that you begin to feel better after so many hours of being awake?

    If it's the latter, do you get the same effect if you change your sleep times so that the feeling better happens at a different time of day?
    redrachel76, Raindrop and Allyson like this.
  2. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Knackers, I have no idea why this is either - I know its common in M.E, but apparently also common in depression, which I do not believe I am suffering from.

    I tend to be at my best between 4pm and bout 6 pm, but having to cook dinner during this time usually wipes me out again.

    I tend to rest all afternoon so I used to think maybe this was why - I always usually feel better after a few hours of laying down rest, although this can quickly be undone once I start to get active again.

    On testing (saliva) my Cortisol levels were normal on waking, dip very low at midday (response to stress of day?) then pick up again in the afternoon before dipping horribly low again at night time - this does seem to follow my pattern of activity - although I feel crap most mornings, I get up at 7.30 ish and have a couple of hours of light activity.

    I haven't tried adjusting my sleep - I need to be asleep by 10-11pm or I cant cope, but I do do better generally for daytime energy if I get up about 9.30 rather than 7.30 - but I need to keep these hours as I have kids.

    Would be interesting to see what others have to say...
    Ruthie24 and heapsreal like this.
  3. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

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    Yes............feel better at night............my muscles feel stronger also. Very interesting indeed. One time a Doctor of oriental medicine explained to me the reason... ( In accordance with Chinese medicine).........but since I didn't study oriental medicine.......It didn't make since to me.
  4. Ruthie24

    Ruthie24 Senior Member

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    Definitely been a pattern I've experienced since I became ill. Initially I kept thinking every night that I was "over" whatever bug I had because I felt so much better and then would wake up the next morning totally wiped out again. It was like the movie Groundhog Day- living the same nightmare day over and over again and it never changed.

    I think that may have been part of what led to the sleep phase shifting I've experienced as well. Not only do I feel better in the evening and at night, but I have more energy so I don't want to go to bed. I can actually sometimes think clearly at night and accomplish things almost like a normal person. And I learned over time that when I woke up, I'd be back to feeling like garbage again. Not much motivation to go to bed then before 4-6 am when I start to feel bad anyway.
  5. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Do you know the reason this happens in depression?
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    yes, the same, mornings i can get going.
    Im not sure why, maybe circadian rythym problems mixed in with low morning cortisol maybe??

    I guess we have to just work in with it and vegetate in the morning and when our energy improves at night then do a few things etc?
    Allyson likes this.
  7. Allyson

    Allyson *****

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    i have exactly that - not sure why - all the hours of rest adding up to give you a refreshed ( blood supplied ) brain?

    It does not happen if say i have to get up and go out eraly in the day i Don't think.....then i am bushed at night - but if s stay recumbent all day then yes, better at night - peak at 8 pm

    ALlly
  8. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

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    I also feel the best I'm going to feel in the late afternoon/early evening. Don't know why. I have the vague idea it has to do with disregulated cortisol cycles.
  9. Allyson

    Allyson *****

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    but does it happen if you get up and stay up all day too ?

    ALly
  10. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    I pick up in the evenings too. I remember in the first few months after onset I use to think I was 'coming right' only to have my hopes dashed and symptoms return heavy and hard an hour to a few hours later. It was so disappointing.
    Ruthie24 likes this.
  11. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I feel best late in the day. I blame it on messed up circadian rhythms.
    Ruthie24 likes this.
  12. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Stress hormones are lower, and the immune system is more active in the evening. Perhaps this can explain why some feel better.
    Ruthie24, rosie26 and justy like this.
  13. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I have to say my 'peak' at 4-6pm is short lived. I am not one of those who has evening or night time energy. I can't stay up late at all - downhill by 9pm usually and must be in bed by 10.30 at the latest or all hell breaks loose with my nervous system.
    sueami likes this.
  14. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

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    It does, but I'm still also fairly early in the disease process. I've been off and on ill for 4 1/2 years but more well than ill for most of that time. I've been in this crash since January. I can get out, at least to the grocery, or light volunteer work, or a party even 3-4 times a week.I don't do much work at home and the work I do do is in the afternoon and evening now -- light housework and cooking.
  15. Xhale19991

    Xhale19991

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    I hate this!

    I always feel pretty damn good about 2 hours before I fall asleep. It is nice to get some relief but at the same time it motivates me to work and do things I can't do during the day when I feel terrible.... which is turn prevents me from sleeping. It's a bad cycle.
    redrachel76, rosie26 and Ruthie24 like this.
  16. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    Yes I feel better and better the later it gets. (Unless I went outside my energy envelope and feel bad from PEM.)

    I used to stay up all night because I was alert at night, and sleep until mid afternoon. Many with ME or "CFS" cannot fall asleep until 2 am to sunrise.

    I think cortisol being reversed is a big factor. We have low cortisol when we should have high, and high when we should have low.

    I also think gut dysbiosis is a reason for feeling better at night. RS2 is helping me to feel sleepy at night and wake up earlier. RS2 is resistant starch and there is a long thread about it.

    I'm not suggesting we exercise but I believe the lack of exercise and general physical activity is part of why the cortisol reversal and gut dysbiosis happens.

    Also in my opinion, pollen allergies, other allergies, and food sensitivities are a contributing reason.
    Adlyfrost, Raindrop and Ruthie24 like this.
  17. Ruthie24

    Ruthie24 Senior Member

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    I wonder about this. In my particular situation this phase shifting of sleep and feeling better at night happened while I was still trying to exercise my way out of the condition. As a physical therapist I knew how easily you could become deconditioned and I was determined that it wasn't going to happen to me so I never stayed in bed and always made myself get up and exercise every day from the first days I became ill.

    Ironically, while I had IBS symptoms for 5 years prior to the onset of ME symptoms, when I had the acute ME symptom onset, my gut was the happiest it had been in years. That always struck me as odd at the time that when everything else was totally screwed up, my gut was fine- other than having no appetite.
    sueami and rosie26 like this.
  18. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

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    2 am for me........
  19. Raindrop

    Raindrop Senior Member

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    I always was a night owl, but since becoming very ill and disabled, it has gotten extreme. I feel horrid all day and have
    to push hard to be able to leave the house. Usually the longer the day goes on (unless I am really crashed
    from PEM) the better I feel. I am my best at night and have most ability to use my BRAIN after 7 or 8pm.
    I just am so much more functional that It makes it hard to ever change my wicked sleep cycle. I mean it's like
    I can't mentally process a thing until late at night, so it's like it just reinforces the cycle.
    I get to sleep between about 1:30AM and 3:30AM. Wake around 12 to an alarm....otherwise wouldn't get up.
    It used to be worse!! Couldn't get to sleep until 4 or 5AM and slept each day until 2 or 3pm. Simply
    impossible to conduct a life and deal with the normal world, make calls, medical apts etc.
    Tested Cortisol levels some years back. I am completely opposite of what you are supposed to be.
    Very very LOW on Cortisol in my "AM" when you are supposed to be Highest -- Very HIGH
    in Cortisol at the point that I am trying to get to sleep!!! NO WONDER I am like this!!!

    Does anyone have any suggestions? When I take Cortisol type supplements I have a reversed reaction.
    I don't sleep at all ! Doctors haven't wanted to use medications to change my Cortisol levels.....guess there
    is a lot of risk in this. Has anyone done this? I want nothing more in the world than to make my
    sleep-wake cycle normal, so that I can cross over with everyone else. It is a lonely world except for with
    all of YOU!
    taniaaust1, Ruthie24 and justy like this.
  20. Raindrop

    Raindrop Senior Member

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    What is RS2??? Can you site the basics and if many people have used whatever it is for this?
    Haven't heard about it.

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