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Fecal Transplants

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Misfit Toy, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. JT1024

    JT1024 Senior Member

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    Enterococcus is normal flora in the gut http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Enterococcus unless it is Vancomycin resistant. Enterococcus (aka VRE) is a Group D streptococcus. This is often "nosocomial" (hospital/nursing home/rehab) aquired.

    Just found this: http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Fermentation_in_the_gut_and_CFS

    • Streptococcus. This ferments to produce large amounts of lactic acid. This may give a tendency to acidosis. Lactic acid is metabolised in the liver by lactate dehydrogenase, so high levels of this may indicate bowel overgrowth with streptococcus. Fermentation produces two isomers of lactic acid, namely L-lactate and D-lactate. It is D-lactate which is the problem, the body cannot metabolise this, it accumulates in mitochondria and inhibits them. One can measure D lactate in the blood stream.
    Elph68....Any contribution to our collective knowledge is a great help! Thanks for your post. There is so much to learn and for me, too little time.
    I am fortunate (??) to still work full time. It is a huge challenge for me but I try to keep up with new developments.
    aimossy likes this.
  2. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi JT, studies have shown that over over 60% of enterococcus strains are now pathogenic and have slipped right under the medical professionals radar .... If you stop by my website www.superbugskill.com I have a pile of papers up there that relate directly to enterococcus/streptococcus and how they cause auto-immune responses that attack internal organs, the thyroid, kidneys, liver, the nervous system, joints etc. .... all scientifically verified. They are prolific lactic acid producers, damage/kill mucus membrane cells, and are multi drug resistant .... Their outer shell is an exotoxin that causes severe inflammation ...... They are considered normal flora so they do not show up in commercial tests. Viridans Strep are the same .......
    rosie26 likes this.
  3. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    You need to search for Dr Henry Butt ..... They are in the process of completing their CFS research, Dr Butt has quite a few papers that he has published leading up to this latest research.
    aimossy likes this.
  4. tyson oberle

    tyson oberle

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    Hi Elph68,
    Are you serious that a 3 year old would be a good donor? I have read that children should be avoided as donors. My next question: Do you think I could potentially use a donor that drinks beer on weekends (he gets a little drunk, but not too much), he eats processed breakfast cereal with conventional supermarket milk and he drinks a little soda sometimes? He is about 38 years old, he is strong, healthy, and has tons of energy. He is willing to help and he lives on the same property as I do, so it would be very convenient. He is willing to do whatever tests I need for him to do. What do you think?
  5. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Hi elph, what is the CDD s opinion of candida? Do they treat it? Do they and yourself think it may be a factor?
  6. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Mate, I really don't know about candida .... I don't show it anywhere in me, so I haven't looked at it .....

    Does it produce an inflammatory response?? If candida causes an increase in interleukin 6 or 8 (or any other pro-inflammatory cytokines), then it is not too big a stretch to say that it does .....

    My wife struggled with it a bit for a while ...... CDD research is mainly focusing on IBS & IBD and clostridium difficile, MAPS, fusobacterium varium etc., it is the Melbourne Uni that is researching the cause of CFS.

    It is just fortunate that by curing your IBS, it seems to put CFS into remission ..... which is in line with what Dr Henry Butt is saying.
  7. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi Tyson,

    Why would you not use a child?? They have the flora they were born with that has not been disrupted with antibiotics, they have plenty of energy and have had minimal exposure to toxins .... I am trying to find the interview where it was stated about the 3 year old ...

    The real success in FMT is the removal of the pathogens before the infusion, and the complete clearing of the bowel .... I have that many papers here, I did have a protocol put out by CDD that said what the donor had to do before the donation.... At the very least fore a week, no sugars or carbs, plenty of fibre and vegies and lean protein (fish would be ideal) ....

    I am very big on collaboration, and doing things at home doesn't change the system .... People power changes the system and the system is wrong .... The doctors diagnosis is wrong and the way we are treated is wrong .... Get some mates together and start making a rukus ..... get the science together and write to doctors asking them to treat a heap of you .... find a wealthy person who has IBS and get them to fund a study ..... Do a full fecal analysis and identify what is causing the 'disbyosis' and then hit the doctors hard .... get 3 months of antibiotics to treat the bowel infection ..... then FMT ....

    Put it simply, our mucous membranes are eyes, nose, mouth, urinary tract, genital tract, skin and colon .... when anything other than the colon is inflamed it is usually due to an infection and is treated, yet an inflamed colon is 'not treatable' .... BS!

    Disbyosis and leaky gut = gut infection ..... Our Aussie clinic CDD will do the initial consultations over the phone .....

    I reckon we let the academics argue over what is happening neurologically ..... I reckon we outa just fight to have our IBS fixed (please don't crucify me) because it is a gut infection. If everybody just fought that battle, we may just win the war.

    As for your mate, checks for Hep, hiv, known pathogens, full bloods, urine and a full fecal test also, at the very least ..... Maybe we should form a sub group and put together a letter/presentation to canvass doctors with .....

    Cheers.
  8. aimossy

    aimossy Senior Member

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    Henry Butt. always think its funny when someones name reflects what they do. yes deep down im still a child!
    great info tho elph!!! I cant wait to see how it all goes!!!
    gooo aussies you buggers! CDD looks like a busy researching place!!!! cracker!
  9. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    make sure you use a child who has healthy parents and was breast fed! I would choose one who grew up on a farm

    not to make children sound like cattle! lol
    SickOfSickness likes this.
  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    o_O

    I hear that the vampires prefer the farm-raised children too. :cautious:
    SickOfSickness, aimossy and Daffodil like this.
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Senior Member

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    So, anyone tried this treatment? Any improvement?

    Jamie
  12. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Senior Member

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    @
    Hi @drewmaster, just out of interest, do you often send questions to top doctors and get a response?

    Jamie
  13. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    By the way, I joined an FMT group on Facebook, and there is a very wide range of issues people are confronting -- with FMT being a therapy they are either exploring, or have tried, or are in the process of trying. Results I have seen there so far are mixed. Some folks are really seeing improvements (such as w. C. Diff), usually with few treatments.

    People with long term issues like Ulcerative Colitis, etc. are having more mixed results, and some seem to improve during the treatments but may then backslide afterwards. There is a lot of discussion of how to screen donors (usually a relative that lives with them), where are doctors who will support you if you try to do this at home, etc.

    So as mentioned above it is still very early days for the approach. But I still find it quit intriguing and worth my limited time and attention to continue to track.
  14. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Does anyone on the forum mention the new fecal capsules?
  15. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    I can't recall if they mentioned that article that was posted here (research on capsules) but there are several there who make their own by freezing the donated sample, then cutting it up and inserting it into capsules. Some also have coated those with bee's wax as a sort of poor-man's enteric coating (to get it into the small intestine before it gets digested). Crafty humans!
  16. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    And they feel it helps?
  17. Lala

    Lala Senior Member

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    How could be the microflora saved when sample is frozen? That does not make any sense.
  18. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Apparently it does just fine frozen -- but again I'm neither an MD nor a scientist so I'm only going on their anecdotal reports.

    @knackers323 yes they do feel it helps, but again what is interesting to note is that every one is reporting different outcomes and they are all dealing with such a wide variety of issues it's hard to draw any direct conclusions -- other than it clearly helping with C. Diff.
  19. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    The idea of having this done scares the crap out of me.:D :redface: I'll leave it for someone else to try the poopsicle tx.

    I mean no disrespect to the topic. I know it's a serious line of inquiry but I was inspired by the first few pages of the thread ~ some comments of which I found rather amusing. Hopefully someone very brave will have something more informative to post from personal experience in the future.

    If it does prove effective I'm going to have to do some serious mental ju jit su.
    SickOfSickness likes this.
  20. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    It has probably been mentioned, but there is a company that is making a "Poo pill". I'm not sure how good it would be.

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