1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The ePatient Revolution
Ryan Prior shares his experience and his thoughts from attending the Stanford Medicine X Conference as he contemplates the rising of the ePatient Revolution ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Fecal Transplant study: 58-70% response rate

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Rrrr, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    5,054
    Likes:
    3,224
    N. California
    Honestly, I would be very wary of doing something like this. So many people carry parasites that are hard to detect, even with the best labs around. If your gut is already compromised, those parasites could easily dig in and do some serious damage.

    And also, how will you know that someone else's fecal flora is going to work for you? Every body is unique and the flora that makes someone "healthy" could make someone else sick.

    This is a new therapy. I would like to see a LOT more evidence before I would dive in to mixing poo in my blender.

  2. MishMash

    MishMash *****

    Messages:
    445
    Likes:
    479
    Georgia
    Don't mix poo in your blender. Especially if you are planning to use it for margaritas later on.

    I thought we evolved with parasites in our cuts? Or should I say: we co-evolved. Taking them out might be responsible for what ails us.
  3. Rrrr

    Rrrr Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes:
    264
  4. MishMash

    MishMash *****

    Messages:
    445
    Likes:
    479
    Georgia
    Rrrr
    I hope they are using really strong capsules.
    snowathlete likes this.
  5. Rrrr

    Rrrr Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes:
    264
    dr. myhill suggests having the donor do a stool test first to see if the donor has anything bad, like parasites or whatever. this is her site on fecal transplants:

    ME/CFS specialist in UK:
    Dr. Myhill's instructions:
    http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Faecal_bacteriotherapy
  6. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Alex, do you know why the lipopolysaccaride is systemic in people with M.E and not just confined to the gut as in healthy people? Is this due to leaky gut? If so, would healing the leaky gut help? Many thanks
  7. GracieJ

    GracieJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    452
    Likes:
    745
    Utah
    I'm all for a cleaned-up version of a close family member's hopefully compatible bacteria cultures. Just can't see me using my blender or an enema bag like this... and can't see me asking a family member for a sample anyway! Posted before on an earlier thread about this, will try to find it and add here.
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,226
    Likes:
    11,351
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Hi anniekim, leaky gut may be a misnomer. There is indeed a leak from gut to blood, but I don't know how much is pathogenic bacteria in the gut, how much is failure of gut integrity, and how much is failure of detox mechanisms. Healing the gut is part of it. So is improving detox. I am looking at detox mechanisms with LPS in mind.

    The idea of direct bacterial transplant is problematic. As I said researchers can select specific strains, grow them in culture, then mix them for transplant. This can be highly purified.

    Bye, Alex
  9. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Thanks Alex for your helpful reply. When you say you don't know how much is pathogenic bacteria, are you saying that as well as the compromised gut lining and poor detox poor pathogenic bacteria can also contribute to it becoming systemic and remain not just in the gut?

    Also would reducing LPS be achieved through taking antibiotics?

    Many thanks
  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,226
    Likes:
    11,351
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    No anniekin, if bacteria became systemic you would have toxic shock. The problem is that different bacterial toxins are produced by different gut bacteria. If you have the wrong kind they could be more toxic. LPS itself is not really a toxin, its a class of toxins.

    Antibiotics would reduce LPS load, but would also kill beneficial bacteria and is only a temporary solution.
  11. est_sunshine

    est_sunshine

    Messages:
    30
    Likes:
    24
    Emootje and merylg like this.
  12. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes:
    493
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Hi est_sunshine, fascinating video presentation! The rats were entertaining... if not a little disturbing :alien: Propionic acid is still used in Australia as a preservative for bread. Check the fine print, assuming you can tolerate wheat & gluten!

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/life/...rap-preservative/story-fn8t7s4s-1226295810108
    Emootje likes this.
  13. Emootje

    Emootje Senior Member

    Messages:
    281
    Likes:
    95
    The Netherlands
    merylg likes this.
  14. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Thanks Alex. As you can see my understanding of all of this is zero, so thanks for your patience. So when you say lps is systemic in people with m.e, you mean not the bacteria itself but the toxins from the bacteria and it is not clear whether these toxins become systemic due to overgrowth of bad bacteria, weak gut lining or poor detox mechanisms? Many thanks
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,226
    Likes:
    11,351
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Yes anniekim, that is right. Different researchers claims the issues are due to overgrowth/bad bacteria, detox failure or gut integrity failure (of which detox failure is a special kind). Any of these could be right, or even all three.

    However one issue I keep thinking about is what if you have a localized bacterial infection that is not in the gut? Immune cells such as gamma delta T cells will migrate from the gut to the infection, potentially leaving the gut vulnerable. This certainly happens in illnesses like pneumonia.
  16. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Thanks Alex. Your question is interesting...
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,001
    Likes:
    2,850
    Interesting how Dr Emma Allen says in the above video that, in the cause-an-effect studies of gut bacteria in conditions like autism, the focus has been too much on bacterial species, and not enough on bacterial genes. She says that the very same bacterial species taken from two different peoples' guts will tend to have a different genetic makeup, and it is the particular bacterial genes that determine the effects of a bacterium in the gut.

    She says that gene sequencing technology is progressing to a point now where determining the entire genetic profile of all the bacteria in someone's gut is becoming possible.

    Note also that a bacterium does not just get its genes "at birth", but also acquires new genes later in life that are delivered to it by bacteriophages. Bacteriophages are viruses that only infect bacteria, and when they do, these viruses inject their genetic package into the bacterium, transforming the way that bacterium functions.

    Bacteriophages are thus a very important part of the gut ecology, and play a fundamental role in determining the genetic makeup the gut microbiome.
  18. Foggy

    Foggy

    Messages:
    76
    Likes:
    17
    Australia
    I saw this turd therapy on 'Catalyst' a couple of years ago - think it was to treat C.difficile.

    If it works for IBS etc and you can get over the ewwwwww factor, then why not.
  19. froufox

    froufox Senior Member

    Messages:
    397
    Likes:
    65
    I'm just wondering if anyone has bought one of Sky Curtis' books and/or consulted her about this? If so, how did u get on?
  20. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,204
    Likes:
    1,327
    Ashland, Oregon
    Another recent article: Transplanted Feces Cures Drug-Resistant Gut Infection
    January 17, 2013

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page