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Fecal microbiota transplantation broadening its application beyond intestinal disorders

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Bob, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. Bob

    Bob

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    This open access review was published in Jan 2015, highlighted by Erica Verrillo on Twitter: https://twitter.com/EricaVerrillo

    It mentions CFS.

    Fecal microbiota transplantation broadening its application beyond intestinal disorders
    Meng-Que Xu, Hai-Long Cao, Wei-Qiang Wang, Shan Wang, Xiao-Cang Cao, Fang Yan, and Bang-Mao Wang.
    Published online 2015 Jan 7.
    World J Gastroenterol. 21: 102–111.
    doi: 10.3748/wjg.v21.i1.102
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4284325/

     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
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  2. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I wonder if the 'case reports' refer to the Borody study. It wasn't very well reported and it's a bit difficult to know what to make of it but the claimed success rate was very high.

    I'd love to see a proof-of-concept trial, if anyone was brave enough to risk it!
     
  3. mfairma

    mfairma Senior Member

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    I tried fecal transplants two years ago and again one year ago. I'll try to get a response together with an explanation of the effects, as it takes some explanation. In short, the transplants totally corrected and restored significant, lasting GI issues, but made me substantially more ill physically and substantially more cognitively impaired, such that I struggled even to figure out how to write a check to pay a monthly credit card bill, which I do every month. The cognitive and physical function improved over time, but I have not regained what I lost. We believe, however, that this effect may be due to issues regarding the donor used and are looking into alternative donors for a second trial.
     
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  4. Bob

    Bob

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    Thank you for sharing your experience, mfairma.

    I would strongly suggest avoiding doing a further fecal transplant if it has harmed you previously. In my experience, if something makes my ME worse then I should stay away from it and not experiment with it further.

    Some ME patients may be especially sensitive to gut microorganisms because of our dysregulated immune systems and/or leaky gut etc. It may even be the case that our immune systems (and our symptoms) are antagonized and inflamed by some types of gut bacteria.

    I've had a disastrous health experience with over-the-counter probiotics. They caused/precipitated a major negative direction in my ME, with a range new symptoms.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
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  5. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    People on the resistant starch thread are reporting that tiny doses or prebiotics and/or probiotics are causing them problems. This is such a contrast with what the Borody FMT study seems to show.
     
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  6. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    It's still a gamble at this point, as we don't actually know which bacteria we want there.
     
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  7. mfairma

    mfairma Senior Member

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    I appreciate your concern, Bob, and am aware of the risks and that I could get sicker still, but I wouldn't consider it if I didn't have good reasons to believe a second trial made sense and good reason to be willing to take the risks. I'll explain, but it will take me a couple days to get something together.
     
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  8. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Which species if you remember @Bob?
     
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  9. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    That's a nice way of putting it.
     
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  10. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Let me guess: Lactobacillus species.
     
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  11. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I have considered FMT in the past, however at this point I dare not, and not just because of the pathogen risk. I certainly don't want a huge load of lactate-producing species dumped in my GI tract.
     
  12. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I think FMT has the potential to make ME much much worse due to the breached intestinal barrier. Also, if FMT can alleviate Parkinson's or MS it stands to reason your donor could be a carrier so you could introduce those bacterial pathogens into your gut that cause those diseases in the first place.

    There are just so many unknown variables at this point. I consider this treatment to be way too risky at present.
     
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  13. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. I don't see how the two ideas are connected. What am I missing?
     
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  14. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    It is my personal belief that bacterial dysbiosis plays a large part in the pathogenesis of all kinds of currently mysterious neurodegenerative and immune diseases. We have no idea what causes most diseases so there's no way to screen for those pathogens if they are indeed present. How would you know your donor isn't a carrier for something he/she is going to develop 10 years later?

     
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  15. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I think the simple explanation is that if intestinal bacteria can cure disease, they can also cause it. It goes both ways.
     
  16. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I see what you mean - thanks!
     
  17. Bob

    Bob

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    The supplement included a number of species, but I think my reaction may have been due to lactobacillus salivarius. It's a strange probiotic that acts a bit like an antibiotic, in that it kills quite a lot of other gut bacteria, which is why it's sometime used for diarrhoea. And since my nasty reation to that, I can't tolerate any off-the-shelf probiotics any more.
     
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  18. LivingwithFibro

    LivingwithFibro Lily

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    What if your donor is someone from a healthy indigenous tribe? This is what I had in mind:D
     
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  19. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    That still does not rule out the risk that the donor is a carrier of something dangerous.
     
  20. LivingwithFibro

    LivingwithFibro Lily

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    You could run a few tests to see that, no?
     

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