The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Favorite Choline?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by ahmo, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I've been using BodyBio phosphatidyl choline for the past 6 months. I was convinced to begin this version after reading info and watching a vid posted on the Mitochondrial 101 threads by radio. The falling Aus dollar and, seemingly, astronomical increase in postage, now put this product out of my reach.

    I've also read some references to citicholine. And Martin Pall seems to favor phos serine. His list says,
    Other phosphatidyl polyunsaturated lipids—this and the phosphatidyl choline are predicted to help restore the oxidatively damaged mitochondrial inner membrane

    I don't know whether these things are interchangeable . Do you have a favorite brand/form of choline? Thanks for your help.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
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  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    I use Now brand Alpha GPC. I'm not sure if this form works in exactly the same ways as the others though.
     
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  3. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Citicoline/CDP choline gets my vote.
     
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  4. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Anyone recommend a brand, some of them really do contain a lot of C#ap.ugh
     
  5. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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  6. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Thanks @adreno I'll have a look.
     
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @adreno So citicholine does the same job as phosphotidyl? If so, I'm on to it. And I'm a fan of Healthy Origins brand. Thanks.

    OK, I see Wikipedia says It is an intermediate in the generation of phosphatidylcholine from choline.

    And Ray Sahelian says, In a way, you could consider CDP-choline as a more potent form of choline. Studies show that CDP-choline helps make phosphatidylcholine in human brain cell membranes in older individuals; may increase acetylcholine synthesis; improves mental performance in patients with Alzheimer's disease; and even improves memory in elderly patients with memory deficits. A Belgian study has shown that CDP-choline administration to dogs improves their ability to learn and remember.

    Thanks adreno, yesterday I just couldn't face another research project.:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  8. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Here's a review of citicoline:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17171187/
     
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  9. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Citicoline and Alpha GPC are both far superior to Phosphatidylcholine. The evidence of Phosphatidylcholine being helpful for anything but liver disease is poor, no matter how much they try to hype their marketing.
     
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  10. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I had been using Nutricology's NT Factor chewables (without mitochondrial supps, just PC/PS) and it made me feel better for a while (after the initial adjustment period of a couple of weeks when I found it sedating and brain fog inducing). After a while I stopped noticing any effects from it.

    I started Citicoline today.
     
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  11. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @adreno
    Not only BIG $ savings, but the most efficient form. I am so glad I asked!!! ...and you responded. :love:
     
  12. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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  13. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @August59 Thanks for this interesting article. Looks like I'll have to look a little deeper. I'm a sympathetic type, tendency toward over-active nervous system, so it could be GPC is better for me.

    I saw your status re in a crash. I'm sorry to hear that. You might be interested in Martin Pall's suggestions re oxidative stress. It's been the latest strategy for me, keeping me just on the edge of the abyss of crashing. Feels like the first time I've been able to manage myself on this sort of edge. The website lists supps that have been very helpful for me. The vid seems to have a more up-to-date list, 20 minutes before the end, on printed slides. Vid is 1 year old. Best wishes to you.

    Martin Pall website http://www.thetenthparadigm.org/therapy.htm

    Martin Pall vid

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-...yer_detailpage&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=6A7r1gemjto
     
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  14. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    In my experience, Alpha GPC is a pure cholinergic, whereas citicoline also affects dopamine.

    Alpha GPC gave me headache, muscle tension and depression, signs of acetylcholine overload, but I know others do well with it.

    Citicoline works like a mild stimulant. It helps with concentration (ADHD type problems), which pure cholinergics often does not.

    I guess it depends on what you're looking for. Or try both and see which one you like.
     
  15. idn0

    idn0

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    Only vaguely related so sorry to hijack, but are Choline + Insotil regarded as fundamental supplements on Freddd's protocol? I've seen a few B complexes that contain them but mine does not. Am wondering if I need them and at what general dosage? I'm already taking lecithin
     
  16. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @idn0 No, I don't think they're included. The first link in my signature, sheclimber's summary, would be the quickest place to check. Sorry, my brain doesn't retain info I'm not using.
     
  17. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  18. aturtles

    aturtles Senior Member

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    Freddd has said yes to choline and inositol. How much or which kind of choline, he isn't specifying. (Yet.)
     
  19. pogoman

    pogoman Senior Member

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    I use standard choline bitartrate for its mitochondrial benefits in cell energy and preventing fatigue after exertion.
    Choline is also a methly donor and helps with C677T MTHFR issues.
    Phosphatidyl choline is lower in choline content than the betartrate form.
    Right now I'm trying out Bulk Supplements choline, it comes in a powder that I mix in with other supplements twice a day.

    If you are using choline for mito energy benefits you may want to combine it with L-carnitine and optionly with caffeine.
    This combo is known as a CCC stack and has been used in the muscle building community.

    Oregon State University has a Linus Pauling Institute that has some informative pages on choline and other B related vitamins and supplements.
    http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/choline/
     
  20. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @pogoman I used choline bitartrate for some time. I've read it's not good for heart. that's when I went back to phos. form. Now moving on, pretty sure I'll try citicoline next, then maybe Alpha GPC. I use 2 forms carnitine, but no caffeine. thx.
     

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