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Fatigue since starting methyl folate

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by uriraha, May 9, 2014.

  1. uriraha

    uriraha

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    Hey

    I started taking methyl folate few weeks ago i take (6S)-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic acid
    Since starting it i am feeling much more fatigue than before.
    I take only 1 mg daily, could this fatigue be because of this small amount?
    Should i increase my dosage? and the fatigue will be gone.
    It really helps the depression and depressive thoughts though.

    Please help
     
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Have you been reading the threads on Methylation and dosing of methyl folate along with B12 and other nutrients? Taking methyl folate alone could be causing your problems.

    Best,
    Sushi
     
  3. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Most of us need to start with very small doses of mfolate and slowly increase it. Most would get slammed by starting with 1 mg.

    Have you got a stable dose of the two B12s under your belt? That seems to be necessary before adding folate, especially as folate without enough B12 can cause nerve damage. B12 is also needed to prevent folate from leaking out of cells, according to both Rich Vank and Freddd.

    Having the cofactors for methylation also seems to be necessary i.e. B complex, minerals, etc before adding either the B12s or the mfolate. Do you have those on board?

    It's complicated, I know, and requires a fair bit of reading and adjusting and readjusting.
    Wishing you all the best.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    There is a lot to getting it down right if you are taking it for methylation support, I would suggest reading the posts by @caledonia for proper methylation treatment plans, she has made several great threads and has the links on her sig.

    I believe it is called roadblocks to methylation, and start low go slow.. Definitely one of the more well versed persons in methylation treatment I have come across!

    Also look into MTHFR.NET, or The work of Freddd and Rich Van Frank would be immensely helpful, be aware that there is some conflicting info between different people though.
     
    Star-Anise likes this.
  5. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @helen1 I have a doc who is overseeing my methylation (which I have not started yet). I'm currently on MB12 and HB12 but I have seen people talk about the other B12, forget what it is, androgen or something?

    Do I need that in addition to or instead of before I start the Mfolate? I'll be starting at 100 mcg. I also have powdered potassium on the ready.
     
  6. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Adeno or methyl b12? they are just different versions of it, generally it is better to have the b12 in doses a bit higher then the folate or at least the same amount, if you are doing that already then you have nothing to worry about. Take the b12 on an empty stomach twenty minutes before eating anything and take folate twenty minutes after b12 to aid in absorption.

    Folate in high doses only causes nerve damage in rare cases of already established b12 deficiency, usually happens the most by disguising the deficiency in bloodwork so it goes un noticed, what can absolutely cause nerve damage though is vitamin b6 in high doses which is why Its always suggested to be careful with that, either get the P5P or another bio available form or try and stick to getting it from food sources.
     
  7. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @Martial I've been taking Mb12 for awhile and just added the Hydroxy, 1000 mcg each. I put them under my lip early in the morning and let them take an hour or more to dissolve.

    I'm not starting the folate for a bit because I have some other things I am starting and only want to do one at a time. My doc told me to take the folate with food at breakfast so that should work since I usually get up after the b12 has absorbed.
     
  8. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    The two most active B12s are methylcobalamin and adenosylcoblamin, (aka cobalamide, cobamamide, adocbl, dibencozide), active as in they require no well functioning SNP enzymes to convert them into a useable form as they're already useable to your cells. That's the problem some have with hydroxyB12; it's not as 'active' a form.

    Amy Yasko though says that people who don't handle methyl donors well (apparently those with COMT 158 and VDR taq) will do better with the hydroxyl form. I've seen discussions about that though and not everyone agrees. Freddd thinks too many people can't convert hydroxB12 to it's active form and thus it's useless for many, yet some people do respond well to the hydroxB12.
     
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  9. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @helen1, a bit to complicated for my one working brain cell Earl but I got the gist of what you said. I guess time will tell about the Hydroxy. I'll ask my doc about the aden whatever at my next appt.
     
  10. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    You may need potassium. Freddd on this board has posted a lot about how taking methylfolate and methylcobalamin can greatly increase the body's need for potassium as cells start to heal and function properly, thus in effect causing a potassium deficiency. This drop in potassium can happen quite suddenly. This happened to me and I'm so grateful I had read Freddd's posts about this issue.

    When I first started taking methylfolate some 3 or 4 years ago, I started feeling better within a couple of days, more energy, it was great. I'd already been taking lots of B12. Then a couple of days after that I felt like I had been hit by a tank, severe fatigue, and realized my potassium had dropped. Fatigue can be a sign of low potassium. I titrated up to 1,000 mg. of potassium a day (over a couple of days' time) and sure enough, that horrible fatigue lifted. I kept on this dose of potassium for a week or so, and I was able to keep on taking the methylfolate and my energy continued. I now take 400 mg. of potassium a day as a maintenance dose and continue to take methylfolate and methylcobalamin with no problem.

    for more info see: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/active-b12-protocol-basics.10138/

    and do a search for Freddd's other posts on potassium and the B12/folate protocol.

    Mary
     
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  11. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I'm feeling like crap and have some Now powdered potassium so I think I'll take some tonight and see.

    @Mary I'm not able to read Freddds or richvanks protocol so I rely on people here to advise me.

    Thankfully there are some really smart people who can dumb things down for me.
     
  12. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    minkeygirl - for what it's worth it took a couple of days for the potassium to start lessening my fatigue, so I would not expect overnight results (although you might get them!) or give up just because nothing happens in one day.

    What was very interesting to me was that I had tried Rich's protocol for some 3-1/2 years with scant results. I had to keep stopping because I kept feeling so crappy on it. I kept thinking I was detoxing (argg!) In hindsight, it appears possible that my potassium levels kept tanking, unbeknownst to me.

    Then I read some of Freddd's posts, tried his protocol, and it worked so well, once I got my potassium sorted out.

    Also, the horrible low-potassium fatigue I experienced after starting Freddd's protocol was familiar - and I realized I had had it before, probably on Rich's protocol, only didn't know what it was (thinking it was another weird CFS symptom), so had to keep stopping Rich's protocol.

    In his last iteration of his protocol, Rich acknowledged the possible issue of induced low potassium, which Freddd had made us all aware of -

    Mary
     
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  13. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @Mary I had tried Freddd's but felt really bad and didn't know what to do so I stopped.

    @Martial suggested I get the potassium to have when I start my Mfolate.

    I did just take some potassium, whatever 1/2 tsp is. I'll keep at it and see if it helps. I have a few things going on now I think so it's hard to figure out what is what. Brain fog, sinus infection, air hunger. I love when they all hit at once.

    Can I put the potassium in iced tea? I didn't care much for the taste.
     
  14. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Minkeygirl - it sounds like when you tried Freddd's protocol you didn't use potassium - is that right? If so, that could be why you felt so bad on his protocol. If your potassium tanked but you didn't do anything about it, you would feel horrible.

    If you only got the potassium when Martial suggested, then you didn't do what Freddd suggested and that may be why you felt so bad on Freddd's protocol.

    If you read the label you will see how much potassium is in 1/2 a teaspoon. I have no way of telling how much potassium is in 1/2 teaspoon - you have to read the label.

    I presume you could put the potassium in iced tea - but the important thing is, how much potassium is in 1/2 teaspoon? You're the only one who knows that - you have to read the label.

    What worked for me was potassium gluconate in capsule form. But if the powdered form works for you, great and I think it would work however you took it.

    Mary
     
  15. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I think you're right about the potassium but no one was around when I was feeling bad. I don't think as many people were up on the methylation back then.

    I read the label of the Now potassium but I forgot the dosage the minute I looked away. I wasn't asking anyone to tell me the dosage. 265 mgs or something. This works for me because it's hard for me to choke down yet another capsule. I already take enough crap.
     
  16. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

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    Be sure to take the potassium with plenty of liquid and/or food. Otherwise it can irritate your digestive system.

    You also do not want to take too much at one time, but I am not sure how much 'too much' is. (Your digestive system may tell you.)
     
  17. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Yes it can cause some pain and discomfort but the version she has is less of a problem then chloride stabalized potassium, generally though a person can combine things, where 1000mg of potassium powder might be a bit much, a banana and one serving at 300mg of potassium and you get 900mg and less discomfort..

    It is always easier to keep doses moderate and pulse it through out the day though.

    Minkey be sure to read the actual serving size and with that you will be good to go. It would probably only be necessary like 3 times a day based on symptoms and the like.. Sometimes it can feel hard to tell if the symptoms are from low potassium but eventually you can intuitively tell what is going on and give your body what it needs.
     
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  18. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    I take potassium gluconate and tolerate it with no problem (200 mg. twice a day with meals), no digestive or any other problem. But potassium citrate irritated my bladder and I think gave me a bladder infection.

    So a lot depends on what type of potassium you take.

    Mary
     
  19. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @Martial, I think 1/2 tsp is 260 mgs, I forgot. I'm not sure if it's part of my problem now, crippling fatigue) but I'll drink once or twice a day for now just to see.

    I made sure to put it in 8 oz water and drank with dinner. So I'm good in that respect.
     
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  20. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Sounds good, you aren't using too high of doses with the methylation supplements so that should cover you, though you can always try bumping it up to see if it helps too..

    Methylation detox can cause the worse fatigue and detox reactions ever!! Lol it can hit really hard sometimes especially if someone is already more burdened with toxicities and the like.. This is why keeping a pace you can handle and tolerate is so key! I think it will serve well just take time if necessary :)
     

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