The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
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Fatigue during methylation and feeling sleepy.

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Avalon, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    I had bad fatigue and brain fog on and off when taking MB12, Mfolate and minute does of ADB12. I also took potassium. I noted that my blood pressure was around 91/67 which is low, I normally have low blood pressure at around 105/70. I think this is due to potassium that I was taking (only 200mg). For me, if I have fatigue its normally due to lower than normal blood pressure.
    I have stopped for a few days and now have started again, with 250mcg mb12 and 200mcg mfolate and multivitamin, fatige ok, but also feel quite sleepy after mb12. Will this pass?
     
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Does the multivitamin contain any cyanocobalamin or folic acid?
    Low pressure can be cause, among other things, to low thyroid activity which is also linked to fatigue, weakness etc... have you ever checked if you have hypothyroidism?
     
  3. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    I was sleepy both at night (great) and during the afternoon(no so great), when I started the Freddd protocol. Sleepiness lasted six months, but there was so much positive going on I kept going. I kept lowering my Mb12 dose until I finally stopped getting sleepy. For last four months, no sleepiness and all the good stuff remains. I'm back to the original 1mg of Enzymatic Therapy. My guess is that the ab12 was not the cause of the sleepiness. Just my experience.
     
  4. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    Hi, No, the vitamin contains neither, I am taking Thorne V multivitamin, which per capsule contains low dosage MB12 and Methylfolate, only take 1 every other day. I had my T4,T3 FT3 FT4 and TSH check they came back as normal. In reference to mb12, I defiantly feel its making me sleep better at night. I took 250mcg mb12 yesterday afternoon and felt a calming feeling but by 9.30 pm I was ready for bed, its a real physical "I want to got to bed" feeling!!. I normally do not feel this way, only on MB12.
     
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  5. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I see. That's an effect that hasn't been reported very often, but I've seen it mentioned at least once. It's interesting how the same nutrient can work in completely different ways. Most people get an energizing effect from Methyl-B12, myself included, in particular it clears the brain fog and helps with concentration and alertness.

    If I take more than 2mg at once I tend to get wired, so I usually take 4x 1mg tabs during the day, one every 3 hours.

    I have to say that since I've reached this dosage I also sleep better, experiencing almost no interruptions which was a problem before. May be that's due to its effects on cyrcadian rhythms?

    How long have you been taking methyl-B12? It may take several weeks or even months to adjust to it and several initial symptoms usually fade away. It's just important that you find a dosage that is tolerable and doesn't cause side effects, whatever those may be.

    Then after some time you can experiment with increasing the dose and see how it goes.

    cheers
     
  6. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Oh... forgot to mention. Make sure you also take Adenosyl-B12. Without it methyl-B12 doesn't work very well, at least for me. Only when I started taking both forms I finally got significant effects.

    At the moment I take approximately the same dose of both forms. And methylfolate, of course.
     
  7. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    I have been taking it for about 5 weeks, with a few days of it every week. Initially I was wide eyed and felt more alert, I also took liquorice root to help with any fatigue (keeping cortisol levels higher). I then went thru a period of fatigue, which passed, some weeks later I started with a 1/3 of a capsule of mfolate (400mcg cap). I then tried a crumb of 'Seeking health' ADB12 (3000 mcg cap), I definitely noticed a difference, felt it the chest with anxiety, powerful stuff!
    Then last week, I started taking potassium, I then got fatigue quite bad, noted my blood pressure was lower. I am currently taking 250 mcg of Jarrow mb12 (1/4 tab) and mfolate 200mcg (1/2 cap) in the morning. The adb12 does scare me though, as I took only very small amount. I amazed at the dosages you are taking, how many months did it take you to arrive at your current dosage, what is your dosage of mfolate? Also do you take adb12 every day or once a week?
     
  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    @Avalon , Hi!

    I didn't have the sleepiness effect, but I have seen it on here, just like @PeterPositive has. Predicting whether the sleepiness will stay - that's a hard one. One thing to consider is that the methyl cycle does contribute to the creation of neurotransmitters, and within that group, one of the products is melatonin. The thing is, that everyone is different in which reactions occur more efficiently than others and where the equilibrium lies at any given point. It seems (just from reading other posts) that people do overcome sleepiness or other transitory reactions much of the time. For me, folinic acid caused something close to narcolepsy, but I did get over it. Eventually, I gave it up, once I understood that it blocked the biopterin cycle being cranked from the folate cycle - not a good thing for us MTHFR A1298C, but too bad because folinic acid is so much less expensive than methylfolate!

    One thing to keep in mind is that we're not living as isolated systems, so there can be many things influencing how we feel. For me, a change in supplements coincided with a mild virus. I thought "How can that make me feel like this?" Truth was, it didn't. Sometimes you have to induce and reverse the change a few times, assuming you feel safe doing that, to be sure of cause and effect.

    Best of health to you!
     
  9. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @Avalon, my sleepy phase passed. There are a couple of threads around here where this phenomenon with mB12 is discussed. You're not the only one it's happened to. It seemed to pass for everyone I've read so far. Hopefully it will with you, too.

    Not to get your hopes up, because everyone is different, but for me the sleepiness was a phase right before everything evened out quite a bit. Not that things are perfect, but once the sleepiness passed I seemed to be more stable. I don't know if that's true in a majority of cases, but it was for me, and I toss it out there as food for thought.
     
  10. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    Hi Cr
    Yes, it seems that I am currently prone to relaxation/sleepiness after mb12 and that you are quite correct in using trial and error to ascertain the correct approach, I feel more alert and wake as I write.Earlier today I felt foggy headed, spacey and sleepy, but this could also be partly related to carbohydrate breakfast, muesli.
    I did take a Thorne mulitvit at Lunch and had a nap and I am now feeling brighter were as yesterday I took 250 mcg mb12 t lunch and felt very relaxed sleep at this time (ITS 10.00 pm UK) So more testing then!!!
     
  11. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    Another thing, have any of you experienced stuffy/congested nose, I have noticed that my nose has become very stuffy and is particularly noticeable on waking in the morning. This has only come on in the last few weeks.
     
  12. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    That's good to know, this all a fine balancing act and I am hoping that I can reduce my fibromyalgia and insomnia. So effectively, I should stick with taking Mmb12 in the morning?
    I did note when searching on Google that a few folks take mb12 in the eveining.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  13. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    Hi @Avalon

    I'm experiencing quite the same thing at the moment on very small doses of MB12 and Mfolate.
    Not just the sleepiness and fogginess but also the stuffiness. I take an antihistamine at night.
    Also, strangely, my hair is falling out quite a lot.
    Thanks for starting this thread.
     
  14. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    The stuffiness at night might be a reaction to something else in the supplement. I'd try a different brand. (BTW, I just started having this, too, on adding sublingual BHRT. Gotta call the pharmacy to ask what's in it.)
     
  15. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    Hi, I thought that at first, but I think it might a slight increase in histamine and toxins.
     
  16. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    Well, yesterday I took 1 capsule of Thorne multivitamin with breakfast, then 1/2 mfolate cap, and sublingual 250mcg mb12, I did not feel sleepy at all!!. However, a felt slight drop in energy about an hour or so after breakfast and then felt a little anxious all day. I did note that my energy level fluctuated more than usual, particularly a couple hour after lunch and dinner.

    Woke up this morning my Fibromyagia is worse in arms (pain!!!!) and my legs/calves are tingling again but more severe than normal. I feel brain fogged as well, with aching around adrenals, so effectively my sleep was poor last night. Part of the reason is that I ate crap yesterday, but also my blood sugars / adrenals my have not been able to cope with the increase in metabolic rate caused by supplementation. I think I need to have just 1/2 a cap of Thorne multivit at breakfast.

    I have always have been sensitive to supplements and if I take too much, I get hypoglycemia over night, with a raw feeling on waking. I will also on occasion get low blood pressure depending upon the supplement, e.g Vitamin D

    Today I will only have a crumb of adb12 and resume other supplements tomorrow. I have to titrate up slowly inorder to bring the HPA axis up to speed and therefore the adrenals.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  17. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    There could be something in the supplement that causes an increase in histamine. Of course, it could be from eating like crap, too. I can eat pretty well, but so many foods have histamines, and I find that well-intentioned friends and restaurants only pull off getting me low histamine food about 50% of the time, even though they are really trying. ("I see you can eat potatoes, so I made these instant mashed potatoes" No. If all I get is stuffiness, I skated by that one.)
    Of course, there could also be toxins in the supplements.
     
  18. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    I have always been prone to itching, but I am itching more today ,particularly on the face. Its the protocol that I am on, it may be that I need slightly more folate (I was low in folate). I am trying gluten free bread at the moment, definitely less bloated :).
     
  19. surfer girl

    surfer girl

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    @Critterina -
    I have also been experiencing pretty extreme hair loss since starting the methylation protocol. At first, I attributed it to chelation treatments but now, I think it's the methylation supplements stressing my adrenals (as several others stated above). I am already on 20mg cortef and adrenal cortical support supplements but it doesn't seem to be enough.

    I am interested to hear what you all are doing to support your adrenals while on methylation supplements. Has anyone found a way to relieve the stress to the adrenals caused by active b12/folate (besides reducing supplement dose)???
     
  20. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @surfer girl I got hair loss when I needed to raise my folate levels. It would happen over only hours, from AM to PM. It became one of my clear signs to increase.

    Re adrenals: I'd been on adrenal glandulars for 2 years, cortef didn't work for me. In May I had a major clearing of adrenals. Since then I haven't needed the glandulars. I haven't found any better way of supporting adrenals than coffee enemas. I wish I knew of something as effective. I've been doing this now for 9 months. After the major clearing I mentioned, I need them less frequently,
    However my adrenals are very sensitive. I'm linking to my coffee enema blog, and some adrenal references.

    I've also become more aware recently of the need to make sure thyroid is functioning, or thyroid replacement. I'm linking to a site by Hashimoto's expert Dr. Khazzarian. It seems his site is undergoing changes, I found some links not working. But I listened to him on the Hashimoto's Institute teleconference yesterday, have listened to him before, very knowledgeable. Also, if suspected Hashimoto's, absolutely eliminate gluten, all auto-immune stimulating foods. :(


    http://thyroidbook.com/ (Dr. Khazzarian)

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/my-detox-story-coffee-enemas.1616/ My CE Blog entry

    http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/adrenal_burnout.htm

    http://blog.adrenalfatigue.org/ James L Wilson

    http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html

    http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/autoimmune-disease
     
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