The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Fasting-like diet reduces multiple sclerosis symptoms: applications for ME?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Cheesus, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160526151941.htm

    Has anyone here ever tried anything like this? It seems like something that could potentially jolt the body out of a faulty dauer-like state.

    I might give it a shot if I can find the protocol.
     
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  2. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    Here is the abstract and a link to the full paper:

    http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(16)30576-9
     
  3. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Intestinal bacterial metabolic activity could be important as well. Maybe there is such a thing as MS-favoring intestinal bacteria.

    I am giving fasting a try today. Normally I do badly on ketogenic diets. Hopefully not eating in the first place will prevent unstable blood sugar and the ketogenic diet associated malaise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  4. Tuha

    Tuha Senior Member

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    I was also thinking about this (I have also gastro problems) but I am a bit affraid about hypoglycemic states. I tried ketogenic diet and I got 20 % more energy what was very good but after 6 months on ketogenic diet I started to feel hypoglycemic so I had to ad more sugar into my diet.
    Many ME patients say that they have hypoglycemic symptoms - so is fasting a good idea?
    I am currently trying to fast once a week (about 18 hours - I start at 6.00 p.m and I finish the next day at midday). I did it only 3 times but till now it went very well. I am thinking about doing it twice a week.
    But then the question is if 1 day fasting is enough - maybe it´s better to do more days
     
  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    They propose intermittent fasting to cure pretty much everything, and coincidentally have a nasty fasting broth to sell the gullible :rolleyes: I read their Type 1 & 2 diabetes version of this study closely, and it was a mess. Basically a lot of information seemed to be selectively reported, and the Type 1 diabetes was actually just transitory hyperglycemia. I doubt their mouse model of MS would have anything to do with MS.
     
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  6. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Increasing evidence shows ME is a hypometabolic disorder. This makes fasting a very bad idea. We are essentially already starved.
     
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  7. Molly98

    Molly98 Senior Member

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    I have tried fasting diet and detoxing several times over the years, always have to abandon very early on as become very hypoglycemic and it brings on ME symptoms worse for me, I feel very unwell.

    This may not be the same for everyone with ME though. But I think there is a big difference between ME sufferers and other autoimmune conditions including MS in that we have a problem with our energy system, in a sense, we are already in a fasting or starvation type state or our cells may think so even if our stomachs don't.

    I think that this can increase the stress put on our cells, and that doesn't feel like a good thing, or that's certainly how it feels to me.
    But would be interested to hear if it works for others.
     
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    As demonstrated by very severe cases of ME without sufficient support. Their involuntary fasting results in death, not a cure.
     
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  9. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Well I'm still alive, but I had to break the fast because I was getting too weak.
     
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  10. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    That seems less like a controlled and temporary fast, and more like chronic starvation.
     
  11. Augmentum

    Augmentum

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    I've tried intermittent fasting. One 3 day fasting and quite a few 24-hours. I was on a low carb, keto diet at the time. I gave it 5 weeks before I realized I had made myself much worse. It made me sooo weak. I really, really regret doing it. I can't seem to "recover" to the level of functioning that I had before.
    Don't do it!
     
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  12. Apple

    Apple Senior Member

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    Honestly after following so many girls online with ME and Gastroparesis, and how unwell they are - I can't see fasting as a helpful in any way.
     
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  13. dancer

    dancer Senior Member

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    My doc said for many folk in America, they are like a car with too much bad fuel and fasting can be helpful to "clean the system" but that with ME/CFS I am "out of fuel" and fasting is a bad idea for me. Before ME/CFS I did a few fasts and found them helpful. Since ME/CFS I've tried and it made me much worse.
     
  14. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I have gastroparesis and swallowing difficulties which flare up every so often, resulting in fasting. These periods of going without food make my ME much, much worse. The only thing that improves is my BP because no food means less histamine and less blood being diverted to the GI tract.

    ME and MS have nothing in common metabolically. I see no reason why fasting would help ME when ME is already characterised by a "hunkered down" dauer metabolic state similar to starvation metabolism where the body perceives some sort of overwhelming environmental stressor or lack of resources and is basically trying to survive by shutting down energy production. Fasting is useful for diseases of excess like type II diabetes, not diseases where people are already in a chronically catabolic mTOR-inhibited state like ME/CFS.
     
  15. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Ever since my illness began ive always felt better when I dint eat. The effect kicks in at around 18 hours and is somewhat cumalative.

    If I eat five times in four days ill feel better than if I ate twelve for example.

    Like everything else though, the benefit plateus and then can even work against you.

    Years ago I went six days without eating but dont remember feeling any better after six days than I did after one
     
  16. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    I tried to do this before (was a thread) because I developed some kind of neurological and other problems, and with the immune system you never know.

    My thoughts were you could do a short 3-day fast a few times a year and potentiate the effects by taking AMPK-boosting supplements.

    I still believe that might be the optimal way to do it if you had to, but in the end it wasn't an option for me, and with new information it seems less and less appropriate.

    Edit: I forgot, there's also a "protein cycling" diet centered around ensuring some autophagy each week (eat zero-to-low protein on 1-2 days a week, but still eat carbs). It's much less stressful and I was able to do that. But now I think regardless of [lowered] mTor status, chasing autophagy is a lot of effort for nebulous benefits and enough may already occur.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  17. Allyb510

    Allyb510 Senior Member

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    Ten years ago my oral allergy and MCAS (I didn't know I had it then) were helped by not eating, it seemed. I used to go 4 days at a time and felt much better on it. It was strangely liberating. Even my ME/Lyme symptoms weren't as severe while fasting. However this phase did not last. I fainted in the town centre in the pouring rain and was taken to hospital. My blood sugar was found to be very low as was my protein levels. Now, I can't go without food for long at all without experiencing ferocious hypoglycaemia. Borrelia and friends will always get fed even if we don't eat.
     
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