Give ME the Money
Graham McPhee spells out some of the cold, hard facts about the dismal state of ME research and politics, and has some suggestions as to what we can do about it ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Fast heart rate while sleeping, wakes me up

Discussion in 'Autonomic, Cardiovascular, and Respiratory' started by ahimsa, May 5, 2010.

  1. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes:
    571
    Central Illinois, USA
    I woke up last week early AM (4AM?) and I was 141/? I was shocked.
     
  2. kristiljkh

    kristiljkh

    Messages:
    2
    Likes:
    0
    Draper, Utah
    Thank you so much for all the information. I have noticed it happens when Ive overdone it. But your right reading/TV/and computer get old fast:) Ill have to try not eating so late at night. If your not on sleep meds then that's might rule out the ambian as the problem. Do you ever have the opposite problem where you cant wake up almost like your heart rate gets to low? I have a Dr appointment in October and I was thinking of printing out this post for her to read. She is a great Dr. Ill let you know what she thinks.
     
  3. ahimsa

    ahimsa Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes:
    1,752
    Oregon, USA
    I just realized that I never answered your question, sorry about that.

    No, I don't remember ever having this problem of very low heart rate along with trouble waking up. I'm not sure what this symptom would mean.

    I hope your doctor's appointment goes well and you find some answers and an effective treatment. Good luck!
     
  4. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    231
    Michigan
    I just want t put it out there for consideration but apparently a fast heart rate can be caused by dehydration (See one of the above threads on POTS) and did you know that most people die at night when they get most dehydrated in the wee hours of the morning? Drinking extra water seems worth a try. Please see the other thread for quotes explaining what happens. You should be aware that caffeinated and sugary drinks do not hydrate and always drink plenty of water whether you are thirsty or not (sometimes people's thirst mechanism doesn't work as they get older).
     
  5. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    231
    Michigan
  6. ahimsa

    ahimsa Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes:
    1,752
    Oregon, USA
    Hi triffid113,

    Thanks for your concern but this is a very old thread (first post was made in May 2010). This particular problem no longer happens to me. My earlier response on this thread (see http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-while-sleeping-wakes-me-up.3816/#post-382761 ) gives an update.

    Just FYI, I've been drinking about 3 liters of water daily, along with salt and potassium supplements, since about 1995. This treatment was started after a tilt table test diagnosed my NMH (Neurally Mediated Hypotension, a form of Orthostatic Intolerance).
     
  7. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

    Messages:
    248
    Likes:
    76
    southeast asia
    i got this problem many times (waking up at night due to tachycardia and palpitation) since 3 years ago. eventhough i got my tachycardia and palpitation since long ago way before that but it didnt wake me up at night, i noticed sleeping really does play big effect.
    sometimes almost every couple of days after i sleep for >6hours i get bad palpitation and tachycardia and then after waking up for 1 hour it went down. which makes me afraid to come back to bed.
    even only for changing position on bed causing my heart goes up and pounding hard. :(
    lots of times when i spent days with lack of sleep, eventhough i got tachycardia but i noticed it doesnt pound hard(palpitation) then later when i pay my lack of sleep and sleep more those days later usually i got worse palpitation (heart pounds hard). before it gradually got better again if i continue to restore my sleep.
    another weird thing. there are days when i feel bad during day but when night about to came usually it got better. but sometimes there are days when i feel ok during the day but when i go to bed lying there it got worse.
    the palpitation actually worse then tachycardia sometimes because it pounds really hard even if its not that fast.
    i also noticed there are times when my heart pounding when im about to doze off. anyone ever experienced it too?
     
  8. Anjikun

    Anjikun

    Messages:
    19
    Likes:
    14
    Hi all,

    I'm so happy to have found this thread. Last night I woke up again with what I call my "weird heart feeling", so I came on here thinking I would post a question. Turns out there is already a thread about this!

    This started for me about a year ago during a major crash period (from overdoing things). I started waking up (often multiple times per night) because of super strong heart beats or skipped beats or a really light, fast unstable heart beat. On a few instances this was followed by major dizzy episodes when I almost fainted, which sent me to the ER twice. Each time when I got there I was stable by that time, so they ended up telling me it was a panic attack. After the major crash period was over this stopped happening for almost a year, but now it seems to be back (although I am not in a major crash period, although I am trying to do a bit of swimming to improve my fitness a bit as well as lift my mood, so maybe I've overdone it...)

    My doctor seems to think I have CFS, but she is unwilling or unable to do anything at all to help me, so I am totally on my own in trying to figure this out. I take it that this can be an aspect of orthostatic intolerance. I'm not sure what that is, so I am going to look at the link above. Today I am going to rest as much as possible, drink lots of water, have some broth (for the salt), take a few potassium pills and hope for the best!
     
    kisekishiawase likes this.
  9. AbsoluteMe

    AbsoluteMe

    Messages:
    1
    Likes:
    0
    Hi Shane,

    I know it is an old thread.. But your symptoms are very mine alike.. I wake during sleep several times with racing heart rate ( i guess around 120-130). And interestingly i have a slightly high blood pressure when i wake up in the morning 130-135/85-91, which goes down after i eat something.
    i also have sinus tarchcardia since my childhood, but it doesnt happen very often lately, once or twice a year.
    I have a fear that i have coronary heart problem or a clogged artery
    I am really interested to your story, what happened with your sleep since 2010?
    And how or where can diagnose viral co-infections causing high BP and HR? ( a feel better and have less symptoms, when i eat onion, garlic or take anti-inflammatory pain medicine like ibuprofin..)

    Best regards,
    Adem
     
  10. therooster

    therooster

    Messages:
    4
    Likes:
    1
    canada
    Fairly new here . I just joined yesterday. I'm looking for answers to my own high BP and have had many experiences and symptoms closely related to those I'm reading about. This includes waking up with palpitations. I'd really like to avoid synthetics so that's why I'm reaching out. Hope to join forces with a naturopath within a few days. With luck , I'll learn a great deal more from him and from this group..
     
    GracieJ likes this.
  11. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

    Messages:
    786
    Likes:
    1,301
    Toronto
    Electrolytes are always worth trying. I think they affect the electrical signalling of cells.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  12. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

    Messages:
    3,522
    Likes:
    6,996
    USA
    @ahimsa

    Hi Marjorie, I know this is an old thread that got revived but I was curious if you ever discovered what caused the tachycardia in your sleep? This was my very first symptom that anything was wrong with me (ten months post mono following another viral infection) and the tachycardia would wake me up from REM sleep as high as 177 bpm but usually in the 150's or 160's. I had many tests and it was all sinus tachy with no arrythmia. I also had sleep study and no sleep apnea.

    It is very well controlled by beta blocker and I take pretty much the same meds as you (Atenolol, Midodrine, salt tablets, potassium, magnesium, etc.) Now I am taking some other meds/supplements, too. I was just curious if you or anyone else in this thread has learned more about why this happens in ME/CFS and/or dysautonomia as no doctor or cardiologist has been able to explain it to me. They all say it is nothing to worry about (and it happens very infrequently for me now) and I can't say that it correlates to PEM or daytime activity. It started in Jan 2013 and I continued to work full-time with this symptom for over another year (before I knew what was wrong with me and before all the other symptoms developed.)

    I was given the diagnosis (at the beginning) of inappropriate sinus tachycardia (IST) but it only happened in my sleep and never awake. This later changed when I developed more symptoms of POTS.

    Thanks for any additional info.
     
  13. ahimsa

    ahimsa Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes:
    1,752
    Oregon, USA
    This got very long but I'm not sure what to cut out. I have not idea whether it will help anyone but I do hope someone gets something out of it!

    As far as I can tell the tachycardia I described in this thread (I describe a second type of tachycardia below) was related to my problems with autonomic dysfunction and NMH. The problem seemed to be related to pushing too hard during the day. I was gradually ramping up my activities (not exercise, just errands and household duties) without realizing it. At the same time, I was gradually reducing my resting time without realizing it.

    So, I got serious about reducing my activities and resting more (which is VERY HARD because I hate doing nothing). I also started mixing up a homemade electrolyte mixture (something close to Pedialyte in sodium/potassium levels) more often. I drink that instead of dinner maybe 3-4 times a week. Unlike so many folks on this forum I sleep better when I don't eat dinner (no blood sugar problems).

    It may also be that I had (have?) some sort of co-infections that got re-activated as @CBS suggested (have not re-read the thread but I think that was mentioned?). But whatever the reason for my problem it finally did subside and has not come back.

    By the way, none of my doctors were helpful, sadly. And the sleep specialist that I visited had not heard of Orthostatic Intolerance. What's worse, she did not even glance at the patient handout from Johns Hopkins.

    I did an at-home sleep screening test (with a device like this -- http://www.resmed.com/epn/products/apnealink/apnealink.html?nc=patients ). The screening test showed no apnea and excellent blood oxygen levels, which was good to know. There was some other problem (hyponea?) that looked borderline. But I was not going to bother with a full sleep test with a doctor who did not even know about autonomic problems (and who did not want to learn!). I think it's pretty well known that autonomic dysfunction can interfere with sleep. And if this doctor's whole focus is apnea and CPAP machines, which would not help me, then why go for a full sleep test with her?

    So, when people talk about getting detailed tests for co-infections I just shake my head in awe. I'm overwhelmed by the idea of trying to find a doctor who would test for such problems. I feel lucky to have a supportive primary care doctor and a cardiologist. I'm sure they were a huge factor in my successful claim for social security disability. From what I read on these forums finding such doctors is quite rare.

    I doubt that I could find a doctor *locally* to do these extra tests for co-infections. And I'm not up to any serious investment of time/money/energy/travel to go to an ME/CFS specialist. I guess I just don't believe the trade-off would be worth it. Plus, there's always the risk of running into doctors who would do more harm than good.

    Okay, now I should try to describe what I think are my two different kinds of tachycardia.

    One kind is due to Orthostatic Intolerance (OI) -- NMH (Neurally Mediated Hypotension) and POTS. My symptoms come on due to various NMH triggers like posture (standing still is the worst, but sitting still and upright at a desk is also bad), getting overheated, and after eating (splanchnic pooling, blood pools in the abdomen). The tachycardia is just one of the many pre-syncope symptoms that I get. It does not come alone. I also get nausea, dizziness, brain fog, fasciculations (muscle twitches), sometimes muscle pains, and others that I can't remember right now. This, along with PEM from the ME/CFS/whatever, is disabling. I am not in bed all day but I am mostly at home. I am on disability, don't exercise, spend a lot of time resting, can't do a lot of household things, etc.

    This tachycardia from OI is always part of a larger set of symptoms. What helps me is to rest in the recliner with my feet up (or lie down completely), get cooler, drink electrolytes, etc. And the drugs/supplements already mentioned (midodrine, florinef, potassium RX, salt tablets, magnesium).

    I also have another kind of tachycardia that first started when I was about 11 years old. It sounds more frightening than the OI/NMH/POTS to most folks when I describe it. But is not disabling at all. For example, I would never drive with a really bad episode of dropping blood pressure/nausea/dizziness/"brain fog". But I have driven with this other type of tachycardia.

    What happens is that my heart changes abruptly, in a single beat, from a normal rate to 185-195 bpm. (even higher when I was a kid) And when it stops it also changes back to normal in a single heartbeat. It is not caused by exercise or exertion. It may be somewhat related to being tired (e.g., international travel and jet lag makes it happen more).

    It was frightening when it first started happening when I was a kid. But it always went away on its own (no need for drugs or any other treatment) after only a few minutes. I went to the doctor and he said that as long as it went away in less than 5 minutes then there was nothing to worry about. I had a completely normal life, went to college, got a job, exercised (hiking, weight lifting, running, aerobics classes), travel, and all that. This weird tachycardia continued to happen at random times. And it still happens to this day. It even wakes me up from sleep at times. But it is a completely different feeling than the problem I described in this thread.

    This other type of tachycardia was--and still is--no big deal for me. It is not painful. It does not make me dizzy or nauseated. The only problem is that it can be tiring when it goes on for more than a couple of minutes (the longest has been 45 minutes). But when it's only a few minutes or less (sometimes just seconds) then it's just a nuisance, like hiccups. It freaks out my husband (he's the only one who's ever been around to feel my heart rate when it happens) way more than it bothers me.

    When I first saw the cardiologist for my problems with ME/CFS/NMH (sorry to those who don't like this combo of terms but I never know what to call my illness) I mentioned this other type of tachycardia as part of my medical history. Because it has never been caught on an EKG (even though I've had two holter monitors since 1990) no one knows for sure what it is.

    However, based on my symptoms, my age at initial onset, my otherwise seemingly healthy heart, etc., my cardiologist believes it is most likely AV Nodal Reentrant Tachycardia . This is a type of short circuit in the heart. There is ablation surgery available if it ever gets too bad. But for now I'm not even taking beta blockers for it. I've tried using the Valsalva maneuver (recommended by doctors) and sometimes that makes it stop, but not always. Usually I just lie down until it goes away.

    I'll end by saying that I've been sick since 1990. I think having been sick for so much longer means that I don't know whether what's going on for me is going to be even remotely relevant to you. I was much sicker early on, esp. during 1991 (difficult just to walk across the room). Many of my symptoms have changed over the years. I'm not even sure I could list all the different changes after all this time. For example, I had lots of night sweats in the beginning and now these are quite rare (once every year or two?).

    Okay, that's more than enough rambling from me! :rolleyes::D

    PS. I just re-read my first post on this thread and realized that I repeated a lot of what I said then about my suspected AV Nodal Reentrant Tachycardia. Oops! Sorry, I guess this did not have to be as long as it was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
    Gingergrrl likes this.
  14. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

    Messages:
    3,522
    Likes:
    6,996
    USA
    @ahimsa Don't worry about your post being too long and it was very helpful for me. I am also incapable of typing a short post and think I am going to give a quick response and then type out a PhD dissertation so no worries. I am going to respond tomorrow but just wanted you to know I read it and appreciate what you wrote.

    We definitely have some similarities in our experience and I remember talking to you about tachycardia and Midodrine in the past but didn't remember that you had it in your sleep like I did and didn't know what the final outcome was. Thanks for the detailed msg and I will reply tomorrow.

    ETA: I have also typed something in a thread that gets revived months later and then repeat the whole story later in the same thread b/c I didn't remember (so we are alike in that way too!)
     
    ahimsa likes this.
  15. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

    Messages:
    248
    Likes:
    76
    southeast asia
    @ahimsa it soundslike u have arrythmia?
    Anyway i also wanted to get it tested for infection, etc but lyme, and other but not so common test is hard to get here :( also metabolic, immune, etc and its also expensive.
    But i wonder, isnt infection or activation cause fever? If no fever for now could it be still from it?

    Do you know about heart rate monitor? (Handheld or mobile phone type application) for heart problem it could be useful.
    I dont think waking up with tachycardia only from dysautonomia. Maybe mostly but could be also hormonal, and other issue.

    And apnea could be caused by ANS i used to get central sleep apnea randomly where the brain doesnt send signal to breathe and i was dying. And waking up breathless.
    Although it rarely happen in 2012 when my health got better or maybe from food im not sure. I used to get episodes of breathlessness too all day in 2006-2010 but then it got better. Dont know why.

    @Anjikun also on my own and very lost :( try and want to find a good doctor that could help but feels like waiting for a heaven sent

    @therooster Hi & welcome here :)
    Have u been to a cardiologist? And do u maybe have dysautonomia?
    I think thats the firstsuspect. And itll be hard not to get drug involved i think.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  16. therooster

    therooster

    Messages:
    4
    Likes:
    1
    canada
    No, actually, kisekishiawase. I haven' even seen a doctor (MD) in over 35 years. Had 3 colds in all that time. My dilemma has been mostly environmental on the basis of amalgam fillings that I got when I was a much younger man in my 20's. My partner complains that my snoring is louder so I think it's time to see what I can do. I'm doing some research on some things that were listed on an email that a practitioner sent to me earlier today.
     
  17. ahimsa

    ahimsa Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes:
    1,752
    Oregon, USA
    Huh, I guess so? It's funny but I never thought much about it.

    I guess I always thought the word arrythmia meant irregular heart rate (e.g., fibrillation) which I don't have. My heartbeat is always quite regular when it's going fast. But after looking up the word arrythmia it seems to include any kind of abnormal rhythm. So, any kind of SVT tachycardia is considered an arrhythmia? I think I learned something new. :)
    I don't know. I see people talking about re-activated infections and blood tests that can detect them but I don't understand the topic very well.
    I had one for a while. For various reasons it wasn't helpful for me so I stopped using it. Eventually I gave it away.

    I might consider one again but there are many different options and complications -- too long for this thread!
    It's possible that my fast heart rate during sleep was due to hormonal issues (instead of overexertion? or in addition to it?) because I am now starting menopause.
    Yes, I have heard of central sleep apnea. I have one friend with a CFS diagnosis (not sure which criteria) who also was diagnosed with this. But since my at home sleep screening showed no apnea at all, obstructive or otherwise, I don't seem to have this problem, fortunately.
     
  18. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

    Messages:
    248
    Likes:
    76
    southeast asia
    i suggest a sleep lab cause apnea could be the culprit. good luck. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  19. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

    Messages:
    248
    Likes:
    76
    southeast asia
    your apnea device is it an pulse oximeter? from what i read it can only help on some degree to detect OSA but not CSA.

    and yes SVT also an arrythmia :D
    what type of heart monitor you have? many people find it to be helpful especially for heart rate issue. does it include ecg pattern?
    i think it could be helpful if you could also look into hormonal imbalance/issue as it can also contribute to it. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  20. ahimsa

    ahimsa Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes:
    1,752
    Oregon, USA
    I had an at-home screening prescribed by a sleep specialist. I posted a link to the device used in my other message. It was more than just a pulse oximeter.
    I don't have one any more. I gave it away.

    Thanks for your suggestions!
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page