The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

FADS1 and FADS2 SNPs?

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by ppodhajski, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

    Messages:
    243
    Likes:
    255
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Anyone like me? I found that my SNPs make me very sensitive to eating any fats, but very sensitive to my balance of omega 3 vs omega 6. All the research points to the rare alleles creating the faster enzyme and therefor creates more inflammatory or anti-inflammatory prostoglandins, depending of course on the balance of omega 3 vs omega 6.

    There is a ton of well documented work on how these SNPs can effect mood, cardiovascular, and other inflammatory conditions. My family has a strong history of all of them. I have been on a low fat, fish only, diet and it makes me feel great. The minute I go on a higher fat diet I get depressed and symptoms of my CFS comes back.

    Also, every child whose SNPs I have for Autism have these rare alleles. I am not saying it is a cause, but I have Aspergers and I think it might play a role.

    http://www.austinpublishinggroup.com/nutrition-metabolism/fulltext/ajnm-v2-id1017.php
    "There are over 100 genes of known chromosomal loci involving phospholipid metabolism, and over half of them are associated with various mental disorders [1]. Many such mental disorders are represented in family histories of children with ASD, and are often experienced by ASD patients as comorbidities. Of particular interest is the desaturase gene cluster involved in the conversion of essential fatty acids into end products critical to brain function."

    My SNPs
    fads.png

    FADS1 Risk Allele
    rs174549 A
    rs174550 C
    rs174546 T
    rs174547 C
    rs174548 G
    rs174556 T

    FADS2
    rs482548 T
    rs174575 G
    rs174570 T
    rs498793 A
    rs1535 G
    rs174576 A

    ijbsv09p0550g03.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    FliskFreya likes this.
  2. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,351
    Likes:
    356
    not here....don't think i had any of them..
     
    ppodhajski likes this.
  3. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes:
    2,117
    NSW Australia
    These alleles are not rare. Rates of 27% - 33% for all of them. Since many of them have a rate of 27% it is quite likely they are inherited as a group.

    I am heterozygous for all of the FADS1 snps you listed, and a mixture of heterozygous for some and homozygous for one of the FADS2 snps. No autism in my family.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  4. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

    Messages:
    243
    Likes:
    255
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Sorry, the single alleles are not rare, the double alleles (homozygous) SNPs are rare. 4 - 12% for most of them.
     
  5. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,317
    Likes:
    6,422
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I have all the snps you've listed, with the exception of the first one. Most of mine are hetero, though 3 homo red zone. I've found my body wants a lot of fat. At times I have a sense of nausea, which, oddly, is relieved by eating fat. I've recently replaced my extra beef fat with coconut oil, which I'd been sensitive to earlier. Also Omega 6 seeds + nuts, which contribute as antioxidants.
     
  6. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes:
    2,460
    Australia
    I'm heterozygous for most of the snps you list, plus several more. I wonder why you chose those particular ones?

    There's no autism in my family and I have no trouble eating fats.

    I thought it was the other way around. Here is fairly exhaustive analysis of FADS1 and 2 snps including correlation with plasma levels of various fatty acids. The minor allele correlates with higher levels of the precursor PUFAs and lower levels of the desaturase products such as arachidonic acid.

    The analysis does indeed show that many of the snps are strongly linked.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  7. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

    Messages:
    243
    Likes:
    255
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Yeah, so it seems we are both right and both wrong. It looks like FADS2 minor alleles are sped up and FADS1 are slowed down. But it is still confusing to me. Below, from the article, I had to leave out SNPs that 23and me did not have.

    So for me, I do not have the minor alleles in those FADS2 SNPs which to me means that I a lot of PUFA and a lot of the desaturated products like AA. Which makes sens with my experience.

    I am also realizing that some of the SNPs I have listed for FADS2 show an effect on FADS1 and might be intergenic.

    Maybe this means to me that I should be more of a vegetarian.

    F1.large.jpg
     
  8. out2lunch

    out2lunch Senior Member

    Messages:
    194
    Likes:
    297
    Almost identical. :eek:

    My 23andMe chip doesn't have the first FADS1 SNP, and the genotype for FADS2/rs498793 is C or T, not A or G. Otherwise, my results are identical to yours.

    Does eating a higher fat diet increase your inflammation? Is that what you mean by the return of your CFS symptoms?

    I'm curious because we have the same SNPs yet I feel better when I eat fat. I've done low fat diets in the past for gallbladder disease, and my depression definitely worsens, along with cognitive clarity. It's like I have a dark dank cloud of gloom hanging over my brain when I do low fat diets. And of course, removing the fats means jacking up the carbs to keep my calories from tanking, and that does nothing but feed feed feed the fungus that loves to hijack my gut. :grumpy:

    I have no doubt that it does. I've had ADD/ADHD crap my whole life; diagnosed at 6 or 7. ASD ran through my mom's family, big time, along with alcoholism and drug addiction. Ditto for my dad's family, but to a lesser degree.

    I've done blood tests specifically to measure my omegas, and omega 3 is always low, even though I supplement. Doc wants me to supplement more, and eat more oily fish like salmon. But financially, that gets really pricey. :jaw-drop:

    I'm guessing that your low fat, fish only diet is how you resolve the homozygous SNP problem? The bulk of your fats are from omega 3 oils like fish with very few omega 6 oils? I'm not really sure how else you would actively balance the omega 3-6 numbers, other than ditch on red meat and swim with the fishes. ;)

    BTW… how did you measure your omegas? I took a blood test called OmegaScore, which showed lower than optimal EPA, DHA, and LA, along with elevated LA and AA. And now I know the SNPs are contributing to this.
     
    FliskFreya likes this.
  9. out2lunch

    out2lunch Senior Member

    Messages:
    194
    Likes:
    297
    I suspect your sense of nausea that's relieved by eating fat is similar to mine, which I know is my gallbladder, that's loaded with several large stones.

    When I don't eat fat, my gallbladder expands with bile that doesn't get released until fat is consumed. And my GI doc said some people are prone to feeling nauseated when this happens. This is why radiologists tell you to eat a fat free diet the day before any imaging of the gallbladder, to make it expand so sludge and/or small stones are easier to visualize.
     
    ahmo likes this.
  10. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

    Messages:
    243
    Likes:
    255
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Yes, I think a high Omega 6 fat diet increases my inflammation more than other people based on several genes.

    I want to make a distinction between "feeling better" and "being better". Fat is a comfort food and it is addictive. Since you had gallstones I can guess you were eating a lot of fat? Also, it is not just low fat but the type of fat. You do have addiction in your family after all. I do as well on my mothers (polish) side and a little on my fathers (Italian).

    And I do not believe most people do not have fungus in their guts. I used to think that but I am all better and I eat a high carb diet.I think the issue is caused mostly by issues metabolizing catecholamines.

    Yes, lowfat, vegan fish only diet helps with several issues. I think I get 15 to 20% of my diet in fat but they are not from oils. I rarely uses oils.

    I would suggest supplementing with flaxseed meal instead of fish oils. Fish oils did nothing for me either and it is to long for me to explain why right now. But the only animal product I eat is fish. I am a vegan everywhere else.

    These fatty acids effect serotonin and dopamine levels so SNPs in MAOA, MAOB, and COMT will matter as well.

    Regarding my levels, I am just talking about the omega 3 and omega 6 I eat, I do not know my blood levels. I am assuming mine would be like yours just because of my history and my family history.

    And for fun regarding your gallbladder, would you mind telling me your SNPs for these BCMO1?
    rs7501331
    rs4889294
    rs12934922
     
  11. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

    Messages:
    788
    Likes:
    662
    @ppodhajski

    FWIW here is a first run from the software that i use. First FADS1 :

    and FADS2 :


    I dont have data for omega6 so this is the reason for this entry not being among the results. Interestingly there should exist entries of FADS1 and FADS2 for steatohepatitis and nafld on PubMed. Also FADS2 is found in PubMed entries for ADHD although the frequency is very small.

    Another interesting entry is for resistant starch.


    If you need any research topic let me know and i will run a proper analysis, we might catch something ;-)
     
  12. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,317
    Likes:
    6,422
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    How about me? I'm ++ for all these. (CC, TT, AA)
     
  13. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

    Messages:
    243
    Likes:
    255
    Chapel Hill, NC
    If you listed those in the order I gave them to you they are all normal.
     
    ahmo likes this.
  14. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

    Messages:
    243
    Likes:
    255
    Chapel Hill, NC
    I have no idea what it is you are giving me. Are you mining pubmed for data?
     
  15. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

    Messages:
    788
    Likes:
    662
    ppodhajski likes this.
  16. out2lunch

    out2lunch Senior Member

    Messages:
    194
    Likes:
    297
    Actually, just the opposite. I didn't have a problem with gallstones until after my hysterectomy, when I adopted a vegetarian low fat high carb diet. Not eating fat allowed the bile to stick around in my gallbladder longer, where the elevated cholesterol (from low estrogen levels) had plenty of time to precipitate out and form stones. Had I eaten more fat, the bile would have flowed more regularly out the bladder, keeping the stone formation to a minimum.

    Case in point: my mom mostly ate a ketogenic diet because she claimed it made her feel better with more energy. Our family doc thought she was experiencing some kind of placebo effect, but she stayed much healthier for decades than all of her sisters, who ended up with gallstones, obesity, diabetes, kidney disease, etc. She stayed skinny, no gallstones, no kidney disease, no diabetes, just mitral valve prolapse from rheumatic fever as a child.

    When I was vegetarian, my fat mostly came from nuts and seeds. I was under the assumption that those fats are the healthy ones. I definitely eat more saturated fat now with animal protein.

    Folks who have issues with IBS and SIBO most definitely have fungus in the gut if they lack good bacteria to keep it under control, especially with IBS-C. Plus, stool testing proved I had plenty of fungus growing like crazy. Being highly positive for fungus on tests like GI Effects that turn negative after several months of anti-fungal therapy proves this out.

    Flaxseed oil is problematic for me. Testing demonstrated it didn't raise the good stuff; doc speculated I don't convert well.

    Oh, yes. Plenty of SNPs on those bad boys. :mad:

    One of the reasons my doc is adamant about improving my EFA/DHA levels.

    It's a good test and not too expensive, about $100 US. I have no idea if it's offered elsewhere.

    Oh like you have to ask. :p You know these SNPs are going to be bad. It was the first "health risk" in my 23andMe list. LOL!

    rs7501331: CT
    rs4889294: CT
    rs12934922: AT
    And 23andMe's gallstone SNP, rs11887534, is CG.

    I'm guessing because of the rampant gallbladder disease that plagued my mom's family, I get the risk alleles from her. But she never developed the stones, most likely because she had optimal cholesterol levels, unlike me in my estrogen deficiency state from surgical menopause.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  17. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

    Messages:
    243
    Likes:
    255
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Hysterectomy. That will throw all genetics out the window....

    There is enough of evidence that high fat diet is one of the major causes of gallstones for people at risk. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.1997.10718655

    You are mistaken about the bile sticking around and causing gallstones. Bile acids are what actually breaks down the gallstones. I would guess it is more likely that you are getting gall stones because of your bad BCMO1 genes:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20233723
    If you do not get enough Vitamin A you will limit the amount of bile acids you make. Bile acids are what breakdown and inhibit gallstones from forming.

    I know all this because I have a woman friend who had a history with gallstones and she has the same SNPs. She takes Vitamin A now and she has no more gallbladder pain.

    You probably feel better eating the high fat because you are more likely get get Vitamin A. On a vegetarian diet you are only getting beta carotine which is hard for you to convert to Vitamin A.

    I took Vitamin A for a short time and it definitely increased my bile acids.

    I am on a low fat diet and do not get gallstones. Do not assume correlation. And your mom could have different genes than you. Most of the older generation is healthier for a lot of other reasons.

    I surprise most people who think they are on a low fat diet when I calculate how much fat they eat, and specifically how much Omega 6. If you ate nuts and seeds you were not on a low fat diet.

    If you can show me evidence of this I will be glad to see it. I used to have IBS-D. BAD. I got every test in the book; fungus, bacteria, SIBO breath test, H Pylori. I tried antibiotics, manuka homey, low card, high carb, probiotics, prebiotics. Sometimes it would get a little better but never better.

    SIBO is a simple test that any doctor can and will do and it is not caused by a fungus, it is caused by an overgrowth of bacteria.

    There is zero evidence that IBS is caused by anything pathogenic. But plenty of evidence is is related to neurotransmitter function.

    You know how I got rid of my IBS-D? Flavin Mononucliotide. (a form of B2). Gone in one day.
    IBS-C, the opposite I imagine, not enough serotonin, I have issues with too much. (MAOA, MAOB, and SERT)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19361459

    Since you have the mood and addiction issues in the family I would say this is probably a more likely notion.

    Taking flaxseed oil while still eating a lot of omega 6 will stop that conversion. Unless you get it down to a 1:1 ration you will not see the change. Since you say you eat a high fat diet I would think that is the reason, not that YOU have trouble converting it. Your genes say otherwise.

    She might have eaten more liver as well. :)
     
    FliskFreya likes this.
  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,434
    Likes:
    3,389
    How interesting! Just like @ahmo, I am -/- for those, but DH is +/- for all of them just like you, @out2lunch ... His mom had colon cancer at about 40yo, then at about 50yo had her GB removed and died at 54 with liver metastasis. AFAIK she ate a SAD, but my husband always craved animal fat, alas it was only recently we found out animal fat is the cure rather than the cause of disease. He feels really well on lard and tallow and doesn't care for fish. I am checking out our FADS SNPs next.
     
  19. ppodhajski

    ppodhajski

    Messages:
    243
    Likes:
    255
    Chapel Hill, NC
    DH should think about eating more liver for the Vitamin A.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23803888

    Wondering if DH and @out2lunch need glasses?

    I do eat liver very rarely and only certain times of the year for the A, B12, and Riboflavin. It is low in fat as well.
    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lamb-veal-and-game-products/4673/2

    Animal fat is not the cure to disease. It is good for people who have the genes who need it. My brother had a triple bypass and ankylosing spondylitis after going on an "animal fat" diet so it was no cure for him. There is no healthy foods, only healthy foods for specific genotypes. I get sicker as well on an animal fat diet.
     
  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,434
    Likes:
    3,389
    Interesting. A few months ago he took a liver-LYSATE supplement and felt very well on it. I think he will retry that.

    Yup, short-sighted
    Actually his herniated disk got worse again even by eating strictly gluten free and with plenty of animal fat. I am afraid of giving him plenty of vit A b/c I suspect his B2 is low. I don't have any FMN yet... It will still take me a while to get it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page